Talk:Carbonari

"Defeated but not beaten"

Under the 1831 Uprising. Wouldn't "beaten but not defeated" make more sense?

Done.JohnBuuseue (talk) 09:32, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

Untitled

HELP!!!! can anyone tell me why the Carbonari were called the carbonari (coal dealers)? is there any siginificance to there title?

My ancestors were Carbonari, and they lived in Croatia 250y ago at least, came from southern France (Perignac). They fleed from there for some reason, changed name, and were sheltered by templars and later Austrian monarchy protected them against catholic church somehow. Carbonari means the one who is able to change the characteristics of the wood ( life, flesh) into higher quality (coal) using fire and earth etc. they were politicaly not left in the sense it got in the meantime, but were communistic in early christian sense, that is: egality was reserved only for the initiated and those whith high ethical criteria, others were concerned dead. they are not "coal dealers", but "coal burners", you can't buy or sale your inner tree, you can only transform it to the ethernal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zvrndanka (talk • contribs) 12:25, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

My recollection, from a college history course, is that the Carbonari were so-named because a nineteenth century army (for example, Garibaldi's irregulars) could travel more stealthily if its campfires were fueled by charcoal, a smokeless fuel. That bit of info was in print, in the course textbook, which was written by a professor at Emory University, back in the 1960s. Can't recall that history professor's name, nor can I track down this bit of history, anywhere in print, nor on the internet. Even military history leads to nothing about this legendary use of early stealth technology. I am still looking for references.

The other more allegorical and romantic reasons for associating charcoal with Italian partisans are equally plausible. However, I wonder about those poetic allusions, since I find many very different versions, connecting the "Carbonari" with various rituals symbolizing "charcoal-users", "charcoal-makers", or "charcoal-sellers". Perhaps these poetic explanations were all confabulations upon the very practical need to use a smokeless fuel?

71.207.203.133 (talk) 19:33, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

As of 2013 I'm still looking for sources of info on the Carbonari, including that college textbook. I might need to visit Emory University and ask to look at their special collection of first editions. As I recall, that was where a copy was archived, of the history textbook in question. It was an inside joke among the history professors, that the textbook was a first edition of historical importance... to Emory University! Anyone else uncover anything? Unfortunately, even historical archives of university libraries are occasionally purged. Or, so I am told. Reason?-- Not enough shelf space and no money to digitize. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.207.222.246 (talk) 02:52, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Napoleon III

You mention Napoleon III helping put down Carbonari revolts - I thought that he was ex-Carbonari himself though (which is why he didn't back Austria in 1866)! Any answers? I am a carbonari:)))) im related to this somehow i think.

The Sufis

There is a chapter about the Carbonari and the Masons in 'The Sufis' by Idries Shah, London 1964. It says that they had a Sufi origin or connection and similarity of organization.--Wool Bridge (talk) 20:12, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Added a reference to this in the first paragraph under origins. JohnBuuseue (talk) 09:38, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

The Edinburgh Annual Register, Vol 13

I came across some fairly illuminating mentions of this topic in an old history book I stumbled across on google:

history book

It covers their possible origins as a trade group that was organized for mutual protection because their profession, charcoal making, necessitated them to live and work outside of the safety of feudal settlements. From their it discusses an individual member of the order spreading it and involving it in international politics. It also gets into the organization and rituals of the order.

I'm not a wiki scholar so I don't really know what to do with this, but I thought I'd put it here because it has a lot of information that seems to be lacking in the wiki page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.229.151.44 (talk) 18:36, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

Sources for future article expansion

Further reading sections are almost always a bad idea at Wiki since they're uncurated, leaving the lists unhelpful and tending towards bloat and self-promotion. Kindly restore these to the article:

• Blanc, Louis. The History of Ten Years, 1830-1840, Chapman and Hall, 1844.
• Heckethorn, Charles William. "Carbonari." In The Secret Societies of All Ages and Countries, Vol. II, Bk. XIII, Richard Bentley and Son, 1875.
• Martinesco-Cesaresco, Countess Evelyn. "The Work of the Carbonari." In The Liberation of Italy, 1815-1870, Seeley & Co, 1895.
• Radice, Fulke R. "An Introduction to the History of the Carbonari," Ars Quatuor Coronatorum, Vol. LI, 1940.
• Spitzer, Alan B. Old Hatreds and Young Hopes: The French Carbonari against the Bourbon Restoration, Harvard University Press, 1971.

once they are being used to verify statements in the text or once they have some terse commentary as to how they are useful or notable — LlywelynII 20:14, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

EB articles have more details that could be added but care should be taken with their POViness: their commentary or analysis may be understood as the period's, but not necessarily the present understanding or fact of the matter. — LlywelynII 21:36, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Rewrite needed

At the very least to integrate the repeated content in the origin section and the contents of the "Aftermath" section, which currently rehashes of the entire history of the movement's uprisings. — LlywelynII 20:37, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Agreed. Article lacks chronological order. Plus, at least one (pseudo-)reference in the "Aftermath" section was inexpertly miscoded as "[3]", instead of as a true refer-back to previous citation. Acwilson9 (talk) 00:18, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Alta Vendita

I'm hoping Aristophanes68 can fill us in on the use of articles preceding the term Alta Vendita. In the article Alta Vendita, the first sentence contains the phrase "(commonly called the Alta Vendita)," indicating that the definite article may and indeed should precede the term. I'm wondering on what grammatical basis the definite article should not precede the term in Carbonari. Also, is Aristophanes68 a native speaker of Italian?--Quisqualis (talk) 05:36, 16 March 2017 (UTC)