Talk:Tongyong Pinyin

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"Xe" and "qe" ?!?

In the "Features" section, under the "Spelling" subsection, the article includes this statement:

"Hanyu x and q...become s and c...before front vowel (i and e)."

Shouldn't that just be "...before i"? When does x or q appear before any vowel other than i or u in Hanyu Pinyin? Has anyone ever seen "xe" or "qe"?

I'm going to change "before front vowel" to "before i." If anyone has any objections, please discuss them here. --Kuaichik 16:54, 18 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral tone mark

Tongyong uses tone marks like Zhuyin, not like Hanyu Pinyin. Tongyong Pinyin has no mark for the first tone but a dot for the neutral tone (optional on computers).

A ring above a, i.e. å, occurs once (in the very last table), but no dot. Even if it is optional, it should be present throughout the article for clarity. — Christoph Päper 15:40, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Crissov: I think the example with å is correct, but the wording of the rule seems wrong. In the 通用拼音方案 Tōngyòng Pīnyīn Fāng'àn "Tongyong Pinyin Scheme," which I believe is the official chart, the neutral tone mark is the shape of a ring.
(edited; I initially wrote this referred to all tone marks) The first tone mark 可省略不標 "can be omitted."
Tone marks are placed 在主要母音上 "above the main vowel."
註：輕聲符號在電腦尚未普遍提供之前，可以不加。 "Note: As long as the light tone mark is not yet commonly provided on computers, it need not be added." (In Standard Mandarin, light tone=neutral tone.) Love —LiliCharlie (talk) 17:22, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Another very similar reproduction of the Tōngyòng Pīnyīn Fāng'àn on p. 6ff. of 中文譯音使用原則 Zhōngwén Yìyīn Shǐyòng Yuánzé "Chinese Transcription Principles in Use" says the following:

註：輕聲符號可用字母 o 上標至右上角（如 ba^o）來代替。 "Note: The letter o at the upper right corner, e.g. ba^o, may be used to replace the light tone mark." Love —LiliCharlie (talk) 06:55, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

So any of these would be valid, but all are rarely used? (They are all available in Unicode, but not on many keyboard layouts.) 12:03, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

First, neutral, light tone mark
Base vowel:	a	e	i	o	u
Ring above U+030A x̊ COMBINING RING ABOVE	å	e̊	i̊	o̊	ů
Dot above U+0307 ẋ COMBINING DOT ABOVE	ȧ	ė	ï/ı	ȯ	u̇
Degree sign U+00B0 ° DEGREE SIGN	a°	e°	i°	o°	u°
Spanish masculine ordinal mark U+00BA º MASCULINE ORDINAL INDICATOR	aº	eº	iº	oº	uº
Superscript lowercase o	a^o	e^o	i^o	o^o	u^o

The problem is that Tongyong Pinyin is not the usual means to indicate the exact pronunciation of Standard Chinese words at all. For that purpose Bopomofo is almost universal in Taiwan. Tongyong Pinyin is mainly used without tone marks in signage, so that foreigners can read street names, place names, etc. But even if tone marks were used here: Standard Chinese names with reduced, neutral tone syllables are highly exceptional, and I can't think of a single place name in Taiwan with a neutral tone. (Such signage is considered English by many, for it is common to call any version of the Latin alphabet the "English" alphabet.) Love —LiliCharlie (talk) 19:33, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]