Talk:Transatlantic flight

London to New York Air Route was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 31 March 2024 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Transatlantic flight. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

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One important event missing: March 30-June 17, 1922. Portuguese aviators Sacadura Cabral, as pilot, and Gago Coutinho, as navigator, fly across the Atlantic from Lisbon, Portugal to Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, in three Fairey III floatplanes, successively used as the aviators are forced to ditch twice. They eventually arrived in Rio aboard the Fairey named "Santa Cruz". First time that men fly across the Atlantic using the stars for navigation, with the Coutinho-modified sextant (introduction of an artificial horizon).

One other important event missing: Canadians Harry Richman & Robert Merrill made the first transatlantic round trip flight 1936. Trekphiler 23:48, 8 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Names of Fairey IIID seaplanes (1922)?

Can anyone confirm the names of the Fairy IIID seaplanes used by Cabral and Coutinho in 1922? This wikipedia page, and several others (probably using the same sources) say that the second seaplane was called "Patria Brasileira", but I've seen sources that say that the second seaplane was called "Portugal". Here is my main source: [1] Based on this source (which claims to be "Based on the reports written by the two aviators themselves which are available in publications and mimeographed documents in the Reference Library of the Navy Museum in Lisbon"), I am changing the article to say the second seaplane was called "Portugal". I've also added a link to the reference in the article. If anyone can find a source that says something different, can they please add a comment here as well. Thanks. 194.200.237.219 12:42, 30 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Picture of one of the 1922 Portuguese Fairey IIIc's in a 1950 issue of Flight here;[2] but no mention of any individual aircraft names. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.7.147.13 (talk) 20:41, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Radio controlled / unmanned aircraft

Given the opening blurb to this article,(Transatlantic flight is any flight of an aircraft, whether fixed-wing aircraft, balloon or other device...) why is there no reference to transatlantic crossings by rc/unmanned aircraft, such as TAM 5? Does this not warrant a mention? Sydb 15:20, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

2hrs from land?

Yeah I wish! Most flights are over seven hours from New York to London. They flights are mostly over 5 hrs I would say , not the two described by the image.Tourskin 01:33, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think the author meant 2hrs from the nearest land/airport.--Pythro (talk) 22:23, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't matter. The picture and the subtext clearly don't make any sense. 19:02, 14 January 2011 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.228.214.100 (talk)

Lighter-than-air aircraft?

I don't see anything about trans-Atlantic flights or attempts by balloon/Zeppelin etc. I think those should be added.

Long Island is not on the mainland!

The entry for the Lindbergh flight credits Lucky Lindy with the first flight from the "American mainland." However, the flight originated on Long Island, which is not part of the mainland. (It is also not in "New York City" as the article states.)

72.128.92.222 (talk) 06:41, 11 January 2008 (UTC)Paul Lyman[reply]

Fixed. Trekphiler (talk) 15:31, 29 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ride 'em cowgirl

Amelia rode as a passenger; who crewed the F.VII? Trekphiler (talk) 15:30, 29 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So what?

Absent evidence these are notable, I deleted.

January 16 1933 - Jean Mermoz and crew make a non-stop flight from Senegal to Brazil, across South Atlantic, in 17 hours 27 minutes.
January 22 - January 26 1926 Plus Ultra was a Dornier Do J hydroplane which completed a Trans-Atlantic flight with a crew of Spanish aviators, that included Ramón Franco and Julio Ruiz de Alda Miqueleiz, Juan Manuel Duran and Pablo Rada.
June 29 - June 30 1934 - Polish-Americans Benjamin and Joseph Adamowicz, amateur pilots, flew across the Atlantic from Newfoundland to France.

Trekphiler (talk) 15:41, 29 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

View from flight over the Atlantic?

What on earth is that image doing here? It could be anywhere! I'm going to delete it soon, unless someone else beats me to it. --TraceyR (talk) 14:54, 3 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

New image inserted. Nice picture but same rationale for deletion applies. This image could have been taken over the Pacific, the Indian Ocean, Siberia, the Antarctic - what is its relevance to this article? How does it add to the reader's understanding of transatlantic flight? It has got to go! --TraceyR (talk) 14:21, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Now another image has been added (or maybe the same one again?). What does a "Wingtip view of a transatlantic Air Canada flight in an Airbus A330-300 at 39,000 feet. Notice the ice build-up on the window" contribute to an article about Transatlantic flight? Same rationale for deletion as in January and March. If anyone can give a sensible reason for keeping it I'll stay the finger on the delete button. If not, it follows the others into the virtual bin. --TraceyR (talk) 22:55, 7 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Commercial Passenger Service

When did commercial passenger service begin? In 1954 my mother flew from New York to London in 24 hours, with stops in Labrador and Iceland. After that ordeal, she wished she had taken a ship. Dynzmoar (talk) 15:53, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

IIRC, both Imperial Airways and Pan American World Airways started scheduled services using flying boats shortly before World War II, however, these ended on the start of hostilities, and the first regular, i.e., routine, landplane Atlantic crossings were carried out by RAF Ferry Command delivering US- and Canadian-built aircraft to the UK and then flying the pilots back across the Atlantic to collect more aircraft. These were usually flown between Dorval and Gander in Canada, and Prestwick in Scotland, however, RAF Aldergrove was also used. Both Imperial Airways (by the renamed British Overseas Airways Corporation - BOAC) and Pan Am resumed flights across the Atlantic in around 1945-6 using US-built Boeing Stratocruisers and Lockheed Constellations, the UK development of airliners having been curtailed by the war. These flights often came via Shannon in Ireland.

Germany was also involved in the early days with the Zeppelins. There is some mention of early services in Transatlantic.--TraceyR (talk) 08:08, 8 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You're quite correct, I had forgotten about the airship services. They would have been the first scheduled air crossings then. IIRC, they would have been by what became Deutsche Lufthansa AG using the Hindenburg class airship.

Pan American had the first scheduled heavier-than-air passenger flights in mid-1939; Imperial Airways never scheduled transatlantic flights. Offhand guess: Pan American's flights continued until 1941, although the northern route may have been suspended during the winters. Tim Zukas (talk) 20:19, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Turns out Pan Am did suspend the northern route (to Southampton, via Newfoundland) for the winter of 1939-40, and it may not have resumed after that winter. The southern route via the Azores to Lisbon did continue into 1940 at least. Tim Zukas (talk) 20:13, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The post-war introduction of routine passenger services (via Shannon, IR/Gander. NF) would be around 1948 or so I have heard. That's also when Irish Coffee was invented, to revive the spirits of tired and frozen passngers on their arrival in Ireland.Strausszek (talk) 09:09, 15 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Could be no airline was selling transatlantic tickets to the public before the end of 1945, but several were by the end of 1946-- Pan Am, TWA, BOAC, KLM, maybe more. Tim Zukas (talk) 00:03, 22 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Regulations for number of engines

The erticle could be improved by mentioning the early stipulation, for safety reasons, of the number of jet engines required for aircraft on commercial transatlantic services. Was this at first four, then three (Lockheed Tristar?) then at some time two? Who lobbied for the changes? What were the drivers? Were there significant improvements in engine reliability and performance that persuaded the regulators to change the rules? Who are the regulators? Have any aircraft failed to make the crossing due to engine failure? --TraceyR (talk) 08:04, 8 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It was mainly improvements in aircraft engine-out performances and increasing reliability and power outputs of the jet engines available. Originally four engines were stipulated for trans-Atlantic crossings, as the piston-engined airliners then available could fly fairly safely on three engines. When jets were introduced, four was still the required number to allow for a single engine failure, however as time went by and the engines became more powerful it was possible to get the same aircraft performance (in terms of passenger loads) using first three - e.g., TriStar and DC-10, and then two - Airbus A300, Boeing 777, engines. The aircraft handling also improved, so that handling with an engine out became less of a problem, so safety with an engine out was greater than before. This was the reason for the instigation of the ETOPS regulations back (I think ) in the early 1960s.

So, in short, the engine reliability has improved to the point where an engine failure is much less likely, and aircraft and engine performance and handling have improved to the point where the consequences of an engine failure are much less serious if an engine does fail.

Lindy

The entry says the "First solo transatlantic flight and first non-stop fixed-wing aircraft flight between America and mainland Europe" was 3,600 nautical miles (6,667 km). Actually it was about 3,140 nautical miles (3,613 miles) or 5,815 km —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.1.41.188 (talk) 14:46, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you can source that, fix it? TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 18:06, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Roosevelt Field was at 40.74 N 73.61 W, and 48.95 N 2.43 E looks as good a guess as any for Le Bourget-- so that makes it 5826 km if he took the shortest route. Tim Zukas (talk) 21:53, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

South Atlantic ?

"Initial transatlantic services, therefore, focused more on the South Atlantic,"

A flight from Dakar, Senegal to Natal, Brazil ( a typical transatlantic service of the late 1920's and 1930's ), has more than 80% of its journey north of the Equator, not south of the Equator. So why would you call this the "South Atlantic" if most of the flight is in fact over the North Atlantic ? The South Atlantic starts at the Equator, not Miami.Eregli bob (talk) 12:52, 27 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There's no universally accepted definition of "North Atlantic"; most? all? articles and books about air travel don't refer even to Europe-to-Caribbean flights as "North Atlantic". Tim Zukas (talk) 21:58, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Although Princeton's "wordnetweb" defines the North Atlantic as being "that part of the Atlantic Ocean to the north of the equator", my gut feeling is that the dividing line runs roughly between the Straits of Gibraltar and the Panama Canal! That has a certain symmetry about it, i.e. with major land masses, continents even, almost entirely north and south of the line thus defined. If this is a new line, do I get to name it? How about the PantoGib Line'? --TraceyR (talk)

Zeppelin stopovers?

The article states: "From 1931 onwards, LZ 127 Graf Zeppelin operated the world's first scheduled transatlantic passenger flights, mainly between Germany and Brazil (64 such round trips overall) sometimes stopping in Spain, Miami, London, and Berlin." (my emphasis)

Is there a source for the "sometimes stopping" claim? I've read a lot on passenger Zeppelins, including Eckener's autobiography, and cannot recall seeing any mention of these stopovers. The scheduled Graf Zeppelin and Hindenburg flights went from Friedrichshafen (and later Frankfurt, when the new airship terminal was opened in July 1936) either direct to Lakehurst, or to Rio de Janeiro with one stop at Recife. Incidentally, the mooring mast at Recife is still there, and to my knowledge is the only short-mast Zeppelin landing facility that still survives anywhere in the world.

In any case, there was no airport capable of handling a Zeppelin anywhere near London, at any rate. The only option would have been Cardington, but it had been out of use since the R101 disaster, and in any case only had tall mast mooring facilities, not the short mast ones required by Zeppelins. -- LDGE

I'm also sceptical about "mainly between Germany and Brazil." Of the total GZ and Hindenburg round trips, there were as many if not more to Lakehurst than to Rio. (talk) 04:17, 14 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

BSAA flew routes from London Heathrow down to Buenos Aires, via Bermuda, back in the immediate post war years, mostly using the Lancastrian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.4.57.101 (talk) 17:18, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Many airlines and destinanations missing in "Overview of transatlantic airlines and destinations" section

This section does not give an complete overview of all the airlines offering transatlantic flights. Airlines like Air Algerie, Air India, Condor, EgyptAir, LOT, Finnair, SAS, Ethiopian Airlines, PIA, Qatar Airways, South African, Emirates, Delta Airlines or United Airlines are missing.

Moreover, it is not mentioned that Aer Lingus and Norwegian operate transatlantic routes from Shannon.

These are just examples, there MIGHT be more missing airlines/destinations.

External links modified (January 2018)

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Timeline

It would be helpful to add a summary "Timeline" to the article. There are a number of potentially confusing/misleading statements about "firsts" when different categories of things are being considered. (The word "first" currently appears 96 times in the article, so clarity would be good.) DKEdwards (talk) 17:23, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

First woman to cross the Atlantic solo

Under "First transatlantic flights": "In 1934 the first woman aviator to cross the Atlantic, and the first person to fly solo from England to North America was Beryl Markham."

Under "Notable transatlantic flights and attempts," "1930s," "First solo crossing of the Atlantic by a woman": "On 20 May 1932, Amelia Earhart set off from Harbour Grace, Newfoundland [and] landed ... at Culmore, north of Derry, Northern Ireland ..."

Don't those contradict? The second seems to be correct. As to the first item, it's at least partly wrong. Markham was not the first woman aviator to cross the Atlantic -- Earhart did it in 1928 as a passenger (unless we define her as not being an aviator) and again in 1932 as solo pilot. The second part might be right -- Markham's distinction might be first pilot of either gender to cross the Atlantic non-stop solo from east to west (a more difficult flight due to headwinds). So should the Markham entry read "In 1934 the first person to fly non-stop solo from England to North American was Beryl Markham" (or, possibly, to make the category more clear, "In 1934 Beryl Markham made the first non-stop solo flight across the Atlantic from east to west, flying from England to North America")? (For what it's worth, based on Markham's Wikipedia article, that appears to be a correct description of her achievement; HOWEVER, that article gives the year as 1936.) In any case, shouldn't Earhart's flight be listed under "First transatlantic flights" instead of "Notable transatlantic flights and attempts"? It's also a first, and arguably more important (has fewer qualifiers)

If someone has primary responsibility for this article and would rather I fix this myself, just say so.Gms3591 (talk) 19:57, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]