Jump to content

Talk:Conquistador

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

[edit]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 September 2020 and 15 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Allen.kong1.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 18:20, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Talk page moved

[edit]

content from Wikipedia:Reference desk about descendants of Pedro Serrano and Catalina Fernandez moved to Talk:Conquistador/Ancestry.

Word! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.191.53.104 (talk) 14:16, 22 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Opening comment

[edit]

We claim there is no relationship between the "Conquistador" and "Reconquista" concepts. There is one between the words obviously.

Reconquista was linked to the Crusades, though. See the battle of Las Navas de Tolosa. But I wouldn't link the Crusades to the Conquistadors. -- Davidme

I claim there IS a relationship. Spain's conquistadors and the Reconquista were directly related. Spain's conquistadors were merely the next evolution of the warriors from the Reconquista. Spain took over the Iberian Peninsula in 1469, and had nowhere to keep conquering except in the new world. They called themselves conquerors, or conquistadors, and moved on to new lands, to continue the cause of Christianity, by any means necessary. ~chip —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hungryhungrychippo (talk • contribs) 18:20, 3 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds like original research. No one cares what you claim. If you can find a significant source for your claim, then you've got something to talk about.Ekwos (talk) 18:53, 29 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Three angry llama's —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.191.53.104 (talk) 14:18, 22 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Conquistadors or Conquistadores

[edit]

Columbus did not "DISCOVER" America, because there was already people living in the New World. Plus, at first Columbus thought he had made it to India. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.190.186.209 (talk) 13:46, 7 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In spanish the plural of 'Conquistador' is not 'Conquistadors', but 'Conquistadores'. In the same way latin words make plural with -i and english speakers use this form (like in sinus, sini), you must use this form of plurar.--Jose piratilla 23:04, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How about just changing the at wording so a plural is unnecessary. Done.--Eb1232 03:45, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This is not entirely true that we "must" use the form conquistadores. The English language eventually goes towards common usage, not always prescriptivist rules. The plural of sinus is sinuses, not sini. Words like octopus can be both octopuses or octopi. ["Octopodes" is correct, actually] The Random House Dictionary gives the standard plural of conquistador as conquistadors, then gives the Spanish plural of conquistadores. The American Heritage Dictionary gives both versions of the plural but lists conquistadors first. Usually the first listed is the more common or accepted spelling and the second are the variants in dictionaries, which would mean that conquistadors is more common. Kman543210 (talk) 03:13, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But this isn't about the English language, because "conquistador" is a Spanish word, not an English one. English dictionaries have no bearing on this, really. If you have to pluralize the word, use "conquistadores" because it's the correct term. If you won't use Spanish correctly, then just refer to them as "conquerors". Shadow86 (talk) 14:41, 21 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This article is in the English-language section of Wikipedia, and it's using the English word "conquistador". Although the English word is derived from the Spanish word, the word, as used in English, is an English word. Its etymology involves Spanish, but dictionaries (e.g. Merriam-Webster and Random House) list it as an English word. Thus, the English plural is appropriate in the English-language Wikipedia article. In a Spanish-language article, the Spanish plural would be used. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.156.126.40 (talk) 23:25, 6 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The word "immensely" means? It is a subjective qualification. IMHO, Pizarro was an immense success, since not only lead to the conquest of the largest civilization of South America, but it also provided the know-how for Mexico's conquest. Luiscolorado 14:12, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I love this rediculous argument! Word! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.191.53.104 (talk) 14:14, 22 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Complete reworking definitely needed

[edit]

This article is completely unreadable. It appears to be a badly translated version of something else poorly written. --70.89.231.121 (talk) 19:55, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Unfortunately, I'm not at all familiar with the subject (which explains why I visited the page). Dziban303 (talk) 18:22, 22 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. This might be the most biased and poorly written article I've encountered on Wikipedia.--Sumixam (talk) 16:49, 2 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest this topic be reworked in its entirety. There are so many instances of confusing, ambiguous or muddled passages that it approaches incoherence in places. If it is a translation, perhaps a different translator should try his or her hand. The 16th- and 17th-century Spanish exploration of the New World is a topic covered in most European and North and South American elementary and/or secondary schools, and this article receives many hits from students doing basic research or following up on their school work. As such, a thoroughly researched, reliable and well-written article is of particular necessity. As now constructed this article is not of as much assistance as it could be. Jum1801 (talk) 13:36, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nee! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.191.53.104 (talk) 14:19, 22 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Introduction is written from a far from neutral point of view and lacks references to sources. --69.137.225.247 (talk) 18:02, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

+1 This article is terrible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.40.239.151 (talk) 21:24, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. This article is chaos. This article should only be about the Conquistadors, the people themselves, not an entire retelling of every single conquest during the 1400 to 1800 period! I would cut 90 percent of all content here, but I am afraid doing so would bother many people, even if in my opinion, it's the right thing to do. 220.255.2.67 (talk) 06:44, 31 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This article was completly reworked during January to March 2012 by 85.251.106.11, so these comments refer to different articles. — Joe Kress (talk) 18:55, 31 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Joe Kress its still the worst article I've ever seen on wikipedia. Who reworked it, a 10 year old? obviously not a native English speaker anyway... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.7.146.243 (talk) 09:07, 14 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This page is in dire need of a complete do-over. If I knew more about the subject, i would offer to help, but I am not very knowledgeable in this area. Some of the errors are very basic (spelling, grammar etc). It is obvious that this was written by a person who does not use English as their primary language. On the whole though, even apart from the grammatical errors, the article is incoherant, and way too long. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.250.44 (talk) 02:33, 1 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Anonymous IP people: I completely agree, this article is terrible and needs extensive pruning. There has been a problem that some editors using anonymous IPs have been strenuously defending the bad material. The page is now semi-protected so that they can't change it, but part of the solution to this problem seems to be for people like yourselves, who care about the quality of the article, to make signons and complete the process to become auto-confirmed so that you can change it. Any little fixes that you can make would be very helpful; this is far too big a task for one editor, or even a few editors. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 14:59, 1 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Mistranslation

[edit]

In the article, the name 'El primer nueva crónica y buen gobierno' is translated as 'New Chronicle and primer on good government', which I am absolutely certain is NOT the correct translation. My guess is it means something along the lines of 'The first new chronicle for good government'.

I KNOW it's not 'a primer' since primer is spanish for first and 'a primer' is a modern American-english term for an instruction book on how to get started.

Can a proper spaniard please change the translation?

Translation by a spaniard: The "Primer Nueva Corónica y Buen Gobierno", means "First New Chronicle and Good Government". So it's the first [ book about the ] first chronicle (it's about the indian way of life before being civilizated) and good government (it's a complain about the Spanish rule).

'The first new chronicle AND good government'. "buen gobierno" is a old administrative formula meaning "gobierno".

This is not correct translated. 'Primer' and 'nueva' does not share the same genus, so, 'Primer' (First) does not relate about the New chronicle, it is related to a book. The correct translation would be "The first 'book named' new chronicle and good goverment". In fact the original name of the book is 'Nueva crónica y buen gobierno', and 'El primer' (not included in the original cover) was added late. And please, sing yout posts. --Jose piratilla 23:00, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe "governance" is better than government.
I have left out "El primer", it is not always used when quoting the title and, besides, its gender does not match corónica.
See the Danish Library for the pre-publication title.
--Error 9 July 2005 01:27 (UTC)

EXCUSE ME BUT THE WORD "Conquistador" Is not only a word used in Spanish but in Portuguese as well!

I have a B.A. in Spanish. I think 'primer' and 'cronica' do not agree in their genders because the title has a more abstract meaning. Consider this: "Primer (Nueva Cronica y Buen Gobierno)". You see, whenever mixed genders are present (such as cronicA and gobiernO) the masculine form is utilized when making references to them both. Also it should be noted that "primer" in the masculine form need not have an 'o' ending; I have heard the phrase "el primer piso" utilized as much as "el piso primero". To answer the question I anticipate next: yes, the adjective in most cases does follow the noun, however it can be placed before it to give a different meaning. For example: "el hombre pobre" is literally, "the poor man". "El pobre hombre", however means "the poor man" which could be due to any unfortunate circumstance. Similarly, "el edifico grande" literally means "the big building" while "el gran edificio" translates to "the great building". And just like with 'primero' losing its -o to become 'primer', in this situation the 'grande' has lost its -de to become 'gran'. Now, to get back to the correct translation, I am not sure as to what other meaning "primer" could have other than literally "first", but putting the parentheses back in the English interpretation may be the first step. "First (New Chronicle and Good Government)." Perhaps someone with a Masters Degree in Spanish rather than just 'a Spaniard' would be a more credible resource; English is my native tongue but I am quite certain that my wording is not without imperfections... Carl Logsdon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.238.198.31 (talk) 06:57, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's the first edition of the "Guide to Good Government" keep it simple, and alliteration always sounds nice! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.236.79.13 (talk) 11:05, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Not Broad enough

[edit]

This article should have more information about who the conquistadors were in general, not just about the conquests of the few famous ones. It should have information on the equipment, weapons, tactics abilities and horsemanship of the conquistadors. his article is entirely to short for the impact the spanish conquests had on the entire world and the path of civilization.

why dont you do it then?89.242.173.91 (talk) 03:12, 20 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ya its too easy to edit wikipedia to complain about lack of information — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.216.188.3 (talk) 18:08, 14 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

the 20th and 21st centuries?

[edit]

Quote:

"...brought much of the Americas and Asia Pacific under Spanish colonial rule between the 20th and 21st centuries."

I think it was a little earlier than that.

It was just a case of vandalism. I have reverted that edit. Next time you see something weird like that try and click the "history" tab and compare different versions to see when the error/vandalims was added and what others wrote before. Take a look at the history of this page and play with the functions of the history view and you can see what happened. (It takes some playing around with the history view to understand how it works.) --David Göthberg 17:07, 8 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

video game image

[edit]

That's, well, odd! "Let's play the virtual colonisation"

I have a question

[edit]

Every time I read about the conquistadores and the American colonies of Spain, there is a strong emphasis on how cruel and greedy the Spaniards were and how many Indians they killed. On the other hand about the British, Dutch, French or Portuguese colonies there is only names, dates and standard information. And I wonder why. Maybe there was no slavery in these colonies. Or there was? Maybe the other countries did not exploit their colonies as much as they could. Or maybe they did. Moreover, the USA started an expansion towards the west. They killed very many Indians looking for gold and new lands. Later they invaded Mexico and force the Mexican to sell them their northern territories. Surprisingly, all these "cow-boys" who killed Indians and Mexicans in the XIX century (not that far in time) are considered heroes in all the films and books. They are almost always the good guys. Could anybody give a serious explanation (with no prejudice) on that?

It was the US Army, not "cowboys" who killed the Native North Americans

[edit]

PS: I also fixed some of your spelling/capitalization. You need to look to some other areas for the Dutch (e.g. South Africa) and British (e.g. Ireland). The Portuguese certainly didn't take second fiddle to the Spanish in their (mis)conduct. But, that just goes to the point of how this article is NOT written from a neutral POV.

--69.137.225.247 (talk) 18:06, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The "Indians" were just as prone to kill each other as the Army and cowboys. There was a tendency for different tribes and tribal groups to serve alongside the colonial as well as directly joining those same colonial forces. PaPiker (talk) 19:25, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

QUITE good point. I also want to know. Another question linked to yours would be...if the conquistadores were such a bloodthirsty people, how is it that at this time there are several million native south americans and mestizos but...only a few native north americans barely surviving? David 15:31, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They were bloodthirsty,but they did not settle with their families in South America as much as their "American" counterparts.Their gains and aims in Americas was in shorter term than those in Northern America.But they are still bloodthirsty assholes for me,and nothing can justify against it.--85.105.127.49 09:01, 27 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It is true that every colonial power can be charged with sins against those being colonized. Some of those sins are covered and some are not. The Spanish conquistadors have historically been charged with greater sins (see the Black Legend article).

Discussing this point here can only lead to a heated debate which will not improve this or any other article related to the conquistadors. I would urge you not to engage in the debate here. It's a waste of time. If you wish to change the balance of treatment, please go to the other articles and increase the emphasis that they give to the mistreatment of natives. The imbalance of coverage does not justify softening the truth about how the conquistadors treated the natives.

--Richard 16:41, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I hate those conquistadors

Bold text== Use of Spanish language terms in English? ==

I'm curious, why is it that the word "conquistador" is used in English, even though the word "conqueror" is a perfectly good translation for it? I realize that "conquistador" carries with it the implicit location (America) and time (starting in the late 15th century). But it's easy enough to say "Spanish conquerors in the New World" or some such.

This reminds me of peculiar uses of Spanish words in English in a misguided attempt to be specific. For example, "queso" is used in the U.S. to refer to a melted yellow cheese served in Mexican restaurants. But the word simply means "cheese" in Spanish. Any kind of cheese. Same goes for "sombrero." That's just a hat of any kind, not just what Mexican charros wear.

And looking at it from another angle, why is it that U.S. history books don't refer to other European colonial conquerors in their own languages? (French, Portuguese, Dutch, etc.) This oddly inconsistent practice continues to this day with the word "Latino", even though there's the term "Latin American" in English. U.S. immigrants from other parts of the world usually aren't described with terms from their own languages by people in this country.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.113.203.48 (talk • contribs) 2006-08-12T23:19:00 - Please sign your posts!

In regards to referring to them as "conquistadors" I don't think they should be called anything of the sort. As this article correctly states it is what they referred to themselves and wanted others to perceive them as. But that couldn't be further from the truth. I recommend reading "The Seven Myths of Spansish Conquest" by Matthew Restall to get a more accurate perspective of this period in history. They were invaders, criminals and opportunists nothing more and nothing less that took advantage of the debilitating effect European disease had on the native population. To call them "conquistadors"/conquerors/etc... is an insult to their victims and their memories and descendants.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 61.68.135.247 (talk • contribs) 2006-08-20T19:03:42 - Please sign your posts!

What? Can be an insult to say they were good and honest sirs; but a conqueror is a conqueror althougth he rape, kill and sack, called Hernán Cortés, Genghis Khan or Alexandre the Great, the question is conquer a country.

-Fco

That's why calling them "conquistadors" is such a gross misnomer, they were not "conquerors" in the truest sense of the word. By ignoring and omitting the contribution of indigenous allies, it gives the false impression of passive, backward "savages" that were easily sujugated by a small band of thieves that travelled across from Europe. That is a grotesque over-simplification of the events that took place and in doing so perpetuates the myth the so-called "conquerors" created which does a great disservice to "conquered" present-day descendants. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.124.132.129 (talk • contribs) 2006-09-13T15:43:02 - Please sign your posts!

The fact is "Conquistador" is the absolute most commonly used term in english, and to use a different one would be foolish, no matter how it offends your political or philosophical sensibilities. More important than this esoteric philosophical dispute is the poorly written and disorganized nature of the entire article, which seems not to have been written by a native english speaker. Sentence structure, spelling and word use are all major issues throughout the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.166.39.15 (talk) 17:49, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A few points to consider: (a) warfare and especially genocidal warfare is endemic to pre-literate societies, so to judge the Spanish, Portuguese or Anglo-Americans by modern multicultural standards is moronic. Yes the Conquistadors AND the US army were brutal, but they were both fighting enemies of extraordinary ferocity and brutality themselves. Please read actual accounts of the behaviour of the indigenous groups anywhere in the Americas before passing judgement on Europeans. (b) the "conquered present-day descendants" currently measure their quality of life in terms of civil, political and social rights which (while below Western European standards) are far, far in excess of what their ancestors enjoyed under the Aztecs. If this is hard to accept, tough; northern Europeans have long-since made peace with the fact that prior to the Roman conquest they were mostly backward, illiterate savages, so why is this so hard for other regions? (c) Conquerors throughout history have been aided by local allies. So what? Alexander the Great's army was at various points largely composed of Asian mercenaries. The Romans made good use of northern European auxiliaries. Ultimately, it was the innovative and courageous leadership at strategic, operational and tactical levels which bought victory, not the alleged ethnicity of the fighting troops.

Briefly, I'm not sure how to go about doing this, but this article seriously needs to be edited to reflect actual common-sense, real-world understandings of Conquistadors, not the semi-articulate rantings of degenerate left-wing academics and anti-Western activists. Pizarro and 13 men set off into a continent about which they know nothing, recruit an army and subdue an empire? I'm sorry, but any Wikipedia article that treats this as mundane or burbles on about smallpox to avoid giving credit where credit's due is clearly unfit for purpose. Without question the conquest of Central and South America was one of the greatest feats of daring and ingenuity in recorded history, and I say that as an Englishman who would hardly be biased in favour of Portuguese or Spanish historical figures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.158.16.35 (talk) 02:28, 21 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Spelling of Hernán Cortés

[edit]

Hi,

The Hernán Cortés article provides Hernán(do) Cortés as the spelling of his name. This formulation has been in use for over 6 months. Some anon editors have recently changed the spelling from Hernán(do) to Hernando and from Cortés to Cortez. I have reverted both of these changes because they were not discussed on the Talk Page first. However, I would not be able to defend the current formulation if challenged. Can anybody explain what the differences are between Hernán(do) & Hernando and between Cortés & Cortez? Thanx.

--Richard 06:10, 23 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The difference is simple: the guy was called, as per the contemporary records, Hernán Cortés not Hernando Cortez whatsoever. Currently in Spanish the family name "Cortés" still exists, while "Hernán" has become rather "out of order", but that doesn't mean that we should change the guy's name now, right? So The Force is definitely by your side to defend "Hernán Cortés" anytime..I'm sure he thanks you from well under the sod..Mountolive 07:16, 5 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I can ensure that in Spain all historic book spell Hernán Cortés. Im Spanish and it's the first time I see It spelled Hernando Cortez. --Jose piratilla 22:50, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why has the Portuguese side of this...

[edit]

...been completely erased? Considering that it was the Portuguese who took much of Brazil and South East Africa - well?Tourskin 02:43, 25 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And don't tell me to be bold. Thats not answering why. Tourskin 02:43, 25 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Trouble is, I don't know anything about the Portuguese Conquistadors, otherwise I'd write about them. It's certainly entirely unbalanced though. 92.0.208.26 (talk) 20:48, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Spanish page

[edit]

Brought lotsa stuff over from Spanish Page--209.213.220.227 (talk) 19:58, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Article Sections

[edit]

The way the article is broken up is quite haphazard and confusing, particularly the "Factors" segment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.166.39.15 (talk) 06:20, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. It's really a poorly constructed article that needs work. Noteworthy is that we must discuss that the so-called victims in this story were hardly passive little lambs --- the Indians were viscious, trecherous, bloodthirsty savages who had even fewer scrupples than their conqurors. So let's skip the revisionism and tell the true story.--137.186.193.232 (talk) 16:00, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. I think the entire article is poorly organized and in some parts not well written. It needs a major upheaval, a better table of contents with more sections, rewriting, etc in order to make this a decent wiki article. As it is now, its confusing and sloppy, which makes it difficult to read and to edit. Bigdan201 (talk) 12:11, 31 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The latent racism propagated by contributors on this page is disgusting to say the least. Labelling indigenous Americans as “bloodthirsty savages” and other derogatory racist slurs should have no place in a site with any credibility whatsoever. Throughout history no ethnicity on earth has had a monopoly on cruelty and brutality. It is then incredibly disingenuous and self-serving for any ignorant prejudiced simpleton to claim Europeans have any sort of moral high ground in this regard. Have the fools that make these sort of baseless assertions studied any European history at all? You could easily make a strong case to argue it’s Europeans who have shown a higher more frequent propensity for violence and savagery than any other group of people on this planet.

And to add insult to injury according to the twisted logic of the bigots who espouse this asinine verbal diarrhea, the supposed “savagery” of the “so-called” (the hide of these twits to even call this into question) victims somehow makes European savagery perfectly acceptable. Are there really people with these type of warped of views walking among us every day? Dear Lord. The indigenous Americans were minding their own business in their own land; no sane decent individual would use that reasoning as a justification.

I’m assuming that is probably Spanish nationals making this type of ignorant comments. I wonder how they feel about the Nazis, General Franco and the atrocities they committed when they ruled Spain and not forgetting the Conquistador Moors and their conquest that lasted almost 1000 years. Was it all okay because of the savagery the aboriginal Iberians had committed in the past? It beggars belief the hate-filled venom anonymous scum think they can get away with on the internet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.224.3.192 (talk) 12:08, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please discuss the article, not the subject. This page is to discuss how to improve the article. It is not a forum.-gadfium 21:25, 17 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The article should be altered to eliminate the obvious bias against the Spanish. Those poor little Indians were no angels either --- human sacrifice, mass murder, all kinds of atrocities those savages committed should be included.--137.186.232.41 (talk) 19:52, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Black Legend

[edit]

Looking over the various comments in the discussion, I can see the tremendous prejudice inherent in Anglo-Saxon analyses of Spanish history. Comments such as "I hate those assholes," and other such thoughts indicate to me that no such person should be writing or editing an article on Spanish Conquistadores. People behaved differently in the 16th century than they do now, and applying modern moral codes to behavior of past centuries is self-serving poppycock. Many European powers, including England, France, Holland, Portugal and others, engaged in colonial expansion in those years, and all, repeat all, treated indigenous people with cruelty and oppression. Even the Encyclopedia Brittanica notes that the Spanish are unfairly singled out as unusually cruel in this regard, but their sins were no worse than those of the people of other nations involved in empire building.

It is a matter of degree, and the Spanish and Portuguese conduct in South American, particularly after the rest of Europe had abandoned slavery, were recognized AT THE TIME to be notoriously cruel and vicious

[edit]

You are correct in that they faced tremendous hardships. You are also correct in that this article is not neutral, authoritative, referenced, and all those other requirements for WikiPedia. This page should be flagged and fixed. If I could figure out how to flag it, I would.

You do need to be careful about your own POV. You are close to revisionist as the author is to excess. --69.137.225.247 (talk) 18:13, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

THE below is then proof that HITLER was brave in WW1 trenches and later surviving bombing attempts. Brave does not equate to GOOD ! Attila the Hun was exceptions and also NOT a GOOD person. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.219.221.86 (talk) 19:53, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]


The Conquistadores who came to the New World were in fact brave and exceptional men, who accomplished things in the face of unimaginable adversity which most of us could only dream of. Who of us comfortably reading Wikipedia in our air-conditioned rooms could even begin to think of traveling into the unknown, leading men into battle, and conquering foreign lands? Francisco Pizarro was killed during an attack by several men. He managed to get his sword, run through two of his attackers, and kill a third. He couldn't pull his sword out of the third man's body quickly enough and another attacker slit his throat. He was 70 at the time! They don't make men like that any more.Cd195 (talk) 16:58, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is true that this "Black Legend" has persisted, and one of the main tenets of Wikipedia is to dispel legends and biases and present articles in an objective manor. A major bias one confronts in English-language textbooks, specifically American history books, is an anti-Catholic and anti-Spanish bias, which is an antiquated product of the Elizabethan Era. The first English, and later British colonists around which the story of the U.S.'s founding centers had a fear and hatred of Spain, and while they sympathized with their Protestant neighbors in the Netherlands and other locations.
I will admit that the Conquistadores faced more powerful enemies, including full civilizations, in the correct definition of the word, and their destruction of those civilizations may have had more of an impact, but we cannot ignore their English, Dutch, and French counterparts. The fact that they only caused the collapse of tribalistic societies does not suddenly turn them into a pastoral society on a higher moral ground than the Spaniards. Whether we like it or not, we Americans need to start looking at our ancestors in the same light as we look at Spain. JosCol (talk) 20:12, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It needs to be reworked. Surely it's obvious that no society has a corner on cruelty against others. It needs more factual language.--Parkwells (talk) 13:18, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Black Legend is not solely to blame for the rotten reputation of the conquistadors. Consider that Bartolome de Las Casas (who can be dismissed of any accusation of propagating any sort "Black Legend) called both Cortes and Pizarro "villains" for their troubles. Consider also that the conquistadors themselves, while extraordinarily brave and resourceful, were by no means professional soldiers or gentlemen, but rather (for the most part) the social dregs of fifteenth century Spain. The role of the "Black Legend" in perpetuating the emphasis on the cruelty of the consquistadors has become a myth all of its own, especially since this cruelty was so extensively documented by the participants themselves, and commented upon extensively by their European contemporaries (and even by their erstwhile patrons and allies). I do agree that the application of 21st century values on the Spanish conquistadors is pointless, but it IS fair to point out that the savagery of these conquests raised quite eyebrows in fifteenth century Spain as well without complaining about historical revisionism or the "Black Legend". --Roger Williams 10:43, 25 August 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Netparrot (talk • contribs)
Not really. What it's remarkable of what you've said is that Spain was the only western European nation in which a group of intellectuals questioned the legitimacy of conquest rather than simply trying to justify it by traditional means (look at the School of Salamanca's article). Several centuries later, other colonial powers just dismissed it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.129.35.2 (talk) 14:32, 28 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

One poster comments that the conquerors were the "dregs" of Spain. What is the source of this I would like to know? The authentic biographical material I've read does not indicate this - only books written by English and Anglo-American historians.

First, historically, the Spanish were only doing what nearly every other nation and people were doing at that time: expanding their territories by military force. Europeans by 1492 had experienced nearly a millennium of blood-thirsty aggression emanating from Asia and from Muslim cultures.

Another point is that it is currently popular to attribute all of the Spanish conquests to disease, or to the aid of "tens of thousands of native allies." But which is it? Either the indigenous peoples were dropping off like flies from exposure to Old World diseases or they weren't. How could these many thousands of "allies" be in everyday contact with the Spaniards who were supposedly lethally infecting them by contact, and still have the energy to engage in warfare alongside them?

Finally, there is another aspect of Spanish history to consider, although it may not be popular in our contemporary, pacifist-oriented society. That is, there is a long history of toughness and military prowess in Spain. Read contemporary Roman accounts of the Spanish warriors, and of how many Spanish troops were to be found in the Roman legions. Read an authentic history of the "Moorish" invasion, and learn how the Muslims were invited in by disaffected Visigoths (who themselves were handed the territory to rule by Rome but proved inept), and how it was never a real military invasion or conquest. There were hundreds of years of continuous warfare in Spain during the period the Muslims attempted to subjugate it. You may be able to explain the conquest of the Americas by Spain as the result of disease. But how do you explain the pre-eminence of Spanish troops on European and Mediterranean battlefields during the same period, for about 200 years in fact? Read about the Army of Flanders, read about Lepanto, and read about the Spanish tercios in the 30 Years War. Get hold of some reading material on Spain during the 16th and 17th Centuries and learn how they shielded the rest of Europe from Muslim incursions while simultaneously battling the Dutch, English and French. Read the Spanish side of the Armada, and of how the English refusal to close with the Spanish troops and instead to keep firing their guns and stay out of effective combat range was viewed by contemporary Spanish chroniclers.

I have never heard of infectious disease introduced by the Spaniards to their European foes or to those of the Ottoman Empire. Have you?

While you're finding unbiased reading matter, find yourself an unbiased account of the Napoleonic invasion of Spain and learn how the Spanish people fought with any means necessary to repel the invaders. I might also mention the Spanish Civil War. While I may not agree with Franco's policies in Spain, I know that he helped save Spain from becoming another Russia, and saved the Spanish people from the unbelievable horrors that the Russian people suffered under Bolshevism. Finally, even though Spain was exhausted by several years of a brutal war, Hitler attempted to bully Spain into join him in his conquest of Europe. Franco refused, and Hitler did not dare invade.

Old World diseases originating from Asia, Africa and Europe didn't decimate American indigenous populations immediately, it happened gradually over time depending on first contact with Europeans and the speed at which it was spread between native Americans population across the continent

So casualties from exposure to these diseases would not have greatly impacted the number of indigenous allies, who made up the majority of the troops, in the initial battles against the main ruling indigenous tribes they were uprising against. In a sense these early battles resembled a civil war so to speak, led and instigated by foreigners.

However the deadly consequences of the exposure to those diseases would have been more palpably felt in the subsequent years and decades as Europeans began to expand further into the continent. European colonization of the American continent didn't happen overnight, it occurred gradually and after a number of years had passed there would've been certain areas where large swathes of the local native population had already succumbed to Old World diseases before any European had set foot there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.45.242.28 (talk) 02:23, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

US black legend propaganda.

[edit]

Well, this is the funny black legend so popular in the US. Caesar was a great conqueror, so was Alexander the Great, but the Spanish conquistadores, well just thugs. Very funny. And on top of that they murdered and destroyed those Amerindians. The funniest part is that to see Amerindians or Mestizos being a majority in an American country you have to go South of the Border. How come? Those brown people living in Mexico and elsewhere in Latin America are Amerindians? And where are they in North America? There must be some mistake here. Well, I know, they are not Amerindians, because they were killed by the Spanish, so they must be Spanish. PS. How the Amerindians became Spanish to suit Anglo Propaganda, a short story. Jan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.12.158.241 (talk) 23:08, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello everyone. I just made a fairly major revision of wording and style of the article. I took out some of the excessive quotes but left in questionable data and statistics, retaining the citation needed tags, to give the contributor further opportunities to cite his sources. Improve as needed, and feel free to correct any mistakes I made.Theseeker4 (talk) 19:46, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not very sure what type of history books you've been reading, but any type of book that promotes a pseudo fascist ideal on story telling should be questioned before hand. It is true, conquistadors, as they are called, were indeed vilified, but vilified for actions they did (you see where im going with this), the lands they colonized were indeed occupied beforehand, of the empires they destroyed little and nothing remains. It is true that compared to American colonists, the conquistadores were quite restrained, they indeed didn't performed near genocide on the natives.
You are either a liar or a fool. The Spanish were responsible for destroying whole Amerind societies like the Arawak and others who refused to be slaves and work in the large agro-plantations established in places like Haiti, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic. It was the Spanish and Portuguese who began importing African slaved into the Americas. Why? Because they wiped out and or assimilated the Amerinds. Better gets your facts straight before you start spouting your racist garbage. Europen explorers as a group destroyed the Amerind socities and imposed their ways on the "barbarians" first to exploit and later to "civilise" them. BTW there are no Amerinds in Haiti thanks to the Spanish and French. --Degen Earthfast (talk) 17:39, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please introduce yourself to some historical facts and return

[edit]

The English (American? Actually a lot were Dutch, German, etc., but that seems to have escaped you) colonists had little conflict with the Native Americans until the French started using them to terrorize those on the frontier (many of whom lived quite peacefully and traded with the Native Americans in their area). This led to an English rebuttal in the "French & Indian War" (see WikiPedia, ahem). The conflict with large populations of Native Americans and the people from Europe was much later in time. --69.137.225.247 (talk) 18:27, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yet, that doesnt excuse them for what they did (we cant just say that it was alright because everyone else was doing it at the time), perhaps you are making an argument in the wrong article, because it seems like you would like to redeem the conquistadors instead of trying to make the article more objective.--190.160.142.65 (talk) 01:04, 16 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure what history books you have been reading as the Spanish were responsible for destroying whole Amerind societies like the Arawak and others who refused to be slaves and work in the large agro-plantations established in places like Haiti, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic. It was the Spanish and Portuguese who began importing African slaves into the Americas. Why? Because they wiped out and or assimilated the Amerinds. Better gets your facts straight before you start spouting your racist garbage. European explorers as a group destroyed the Amerind societies and imposed their ways on the "barbarians" first to exploit and later to "civilise" them. BTW there are no Amerinds in Haiti thanks to the Spanish and French. --Degen Earthfast (talk) 17:39, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

He is just pointing out the spectacular dishonesty in the Anglophone world (and strikingly, specially in the US) about this topic.

You have any facts to back up your wild accusations?

[edit]

Your knowledge of history of English speaking people is as limited as your knowledge of Spanish/Portuguese speaking! Look at the history of the English genocide of the Irish (who, um, now speak English because their native language was outlawed). I also suspect that there are a lot of English speakers world wide, perhaps the majority, who do not fit your stereotype.--69.137.225.247 (talk) 18:27, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The problem in making someone brought up in anglo culture aware how the black legend works is that, as a cultural meme so ingrained in their psyche, any venture into explaining the reasons why is not honest to singling out Spain for the sins that all Europeans empires committed can only mean that you are obviously trying to whitewash Spain's murderous history, if you are not actually a wannabe conquistador only dying to take a plane to the Andes and start murdering Native Americans for the kicks. If the same kind of adjectives and condemnatory tone were usually applied every time any topic of the English colonization of America and the later birth of the US is alluded, then there would be no accusation of anti-Spanish bias. The black legend is created by the omission of a similar stern condemnatory tone in European imperialism outside Spain. If you look at the history of this article, and later check the history of England colonisation and the history of the US you will notice that not much focus is made in "hating those assholes" English and early Americans, the founding fathers of America (enablers of genocide) or XIX century Americans. From my experience, it's absolutely impossible for many Americans to understand that if we are going to play the presentist game and we judge the Conquistadors by today's moral standards, then they have to do the same with their own European-American ancestors. Most have some kind of inbuilt mental mechanism that makes possible to put the spotlight in the atrocities of the Spanish empire, but for some reason they can't focus with the same intensity in the equally horrible atrocities made by their forefathers. And actually, that judgment should be harsher against their own, since the US was still committing atrocities in a much much more enlightened era than Spain did (not to mention that the vast majority of victims caused by the Spanish were caused by Old World diseases, and that there is no proof that there was any actual genocidal plans from their part, something that can't be said about the US). It's a mindblogging spectacle how some Americans still accuse monder-day Spanish of brutality against Native Americans, considering there is a deep sense of disgust in contemporary Spain regarding our old Imperialism. You can bet we don't exactly watch movies glorifying the conquistadores deeds starring some Spanish John Wayne equivalent.

The people who actually did/enabled/profited directly from the extermination/displacement/ostracism of Native Americans are your own European-American ancestors. Have this in mind when emphasizing how brutal and bloodthirsty and cruel and savage those evil Spaniards were. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Srtype (talk • contribs) 15:12, October 19, 2008

Again you need to reread your own history books and look at the histories of war and subjugation that those "poor natives" inflicted upon themselves. Try the Inca War of Succession or the constant fighting between the plains Indians. The "victim mentality" only goes so far. We all had a hand in it.--Degen Earthfast (talk) 17:42, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oh those Ugly Americans, they're at it again!!! (biting sarcasm)--Degen Earthfast (talk) 17:42, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

CFD for Category:Conquistadores

[edit]

On whether to display the guys we're talking about here to be mean or not

[edit]
I looked through the talk and... Gah. If you want to talk about 'on whether to display the guys we're talking about here to be mean or not' just use this 'article/discussion' for it instead of posting it all over the rest of the talk. Unlike how most of you seem, I'm actually trying to learn something here, so please make it easier for me. Thank you.
7h3 3L173 (talk) 03:28, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Smallpox Theory

[edit]
I was just thinking maybe the bit about the smallpox needs to be... removed or reworded or something. Even though it was what they (you know who I'm talking about) said; "It was smallpox"; most people here seem to think so too; some new research suggests it might actually not be. Some people who study the subject think it might even be a disease that was already in the area (like the Black Death in Europe) that came back during a period of low resistance and killed everyone. I forgot what it was called, but it's on the tip of my tounge... ma- or mi- something -x- something.
7h3 3L173 (talk) 03:51, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I added some info & links to the article about the disease epidemic spurred by a great drought that is likely responsible for the decline in the Aztec Mexican population (I'm new to this, so if it's not done correctly, please help!). It does not totally dispel the idea that European diseases killed large amounts of indigenous people in other regions, but it does illustrate some unfair assumptions about the Spanish and what part they played in the demise of these people. Even if the Spanish had not arrived, these indigenous people may have experienced huge casualties from this epidemic. --Rococo1983 (talk) 01:39, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The flip side of that coin being how the returning heroes brought diseases back to the Old World.--Degen Earthfast (talk) 19:39, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

the politics of history's atrocities

[edit]

if your genetic ethnicity has spanish or part spanish dna making up who you are it's time to acknowledge,own up and apologize for the invading,raping,murdering,pillaging,enslaving,conquering and assimmilating of millions of people on millions of acres in the western hemisphere and throughout the world and also for the widespread participation in the slave trade with sub-saharan africa in which the spanish and portugese brought over millions of black slaves to the americas.how come everyone who is of european descent is considered a white devil imperialistic slavetrading oppressor except for the spanish and portugese? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.29.190.51 (talk) 17:54, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And what are you? Another non-European with a huge inferiority complex? Spaniards and Europeans did what they did because they had the guts and the capacity. The others did not because they did not have the guts or the capacity, not because they were mother Teresa. Native Americans or Africans etc were even more cruel among themselves. The Incas or Mayas had their own cruel empires. The Spanihs or Europeans just happened to do it better, you like it or not. Slave trade was popular in Africa among black tribes, later spread by the Arabs. The Europeans came later. And also brought later democracy, human rights, etc.... The rest of the world without the Europeans would be just an enormous heap of shit. YeaH, WE HAVE SHOWN TO BE THE BEST UP TO NOW. But you can do better maybe in the future. Keep up the good work but do not be ignorant about facts. Otto.

This is great stuff! A few points:

1. Haven't found anybody who wants to return to their original world/life as it existed before they were colonized/enslaved. Seems life is much better now, no matter what the ancestors had to endure.

2. Maybe this is the reason why professionals should be writing encyclopedias, not amateurs with an axe to grind.

3. For a generation so enamored with Evolution and Survival of the Fittest, we seem to be awfully willing to give it all up if it means a few weaker people will have to die. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.156.170.115 (talk) 04:06, 18 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"There are no professionals, just those who are better at some things than others." John Madden --Degen Earthfast (talk) 17:48, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Kindly take this B.S. to a political forum where it belongs. 98.182.33.64 (talk) 10:25, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nice european messiah complex here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.117.201.19 (talk) 12:23, 10 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Organisation

[edit]

'Significance' is too nebulous a concept and needs to be divided up into something less long-winded (or at least truncated a little).

Spanish only

[edit]

I would like to challenge the clain that conquistador only refers to people of spanish origin. While there is no doubt that the idea and institution of la conquista is spanish/portuguese, there have been plenty known cases of french, english and german adventurers engaging in such enterprises. The references given for this claim are definitely too vague to support it anyway, like page numbers missing. --91.32.198.232 (talk) 17:28, 18 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"French, English and German adventurers engaging in such enterprises" would probably be called conquerors in the English language, not conquistadors. To change the article to support your view, you must find references that actually use the term conquistadors to refer to such "French, English and German adventurers". — Joe Kress (talk) 07:08, 19 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Certainly there should be some Portuguese in there though (see above). 92.0.208.26 (talk) 20:51, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ok I've "been bold" and put something very small in. 92.0.208.26 (talk) 21:02, 4 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Contradiction

[edit]

I've placed the {{contradict}} template on the article because it appears to contradict itself. The second paragraph says that "Conquistadors in the Americas were more volunteer militia than organized military." While the first sentence of this subsection says that "The conquerors were professional armies…" Neither claims are supported by a reference. — Fly by Night (talk) 16:29, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • No, no hay contradicción ninguna. Estamos hablando de un periodo que abarca varios siglos. Los grupos de conquistadores se financiaban como podian. LLegaba una expedición, que se motivaba por el interes economico, y se buscaba una financiación, que podia ser por la corona y el rey, la nobleza, o ricos comerciantes. Según en que grado participaba la corona y sus recursos, la campaña era mas profesional. con todo se daba el caso de gobernadores que no tenian experiencia militar, ya que en la america colonial española, los cargos públicos se compraban o se debían mas a influencias que a meritos propios. Muchas veces, una expedición de conquistadores eran un grupo de ricoshombres que financiaban a su cargo varones que habian reclutado y a los que alimentaban prometiendoles una parte del botín que se consiguiese con la expedición. Este grupo sin experiencia militar solia constar de un grupusculo de clerigos católicos formados en diversas disciplinas y un grupusculo de soldados o mercenarios con formación militar. Estas expediciones constaban frecuentemente de esclavos que eran así mismo hombres de confianza con una formación mayor que la tropa de aventureros y con mayores cargos de responsabilidad: interpretes, informadores, criados, maestros, etc.

Como ejemplo, Hernan Cortes fue durante su niñez un pastor de cerdos que se alimentaba de las bellotas que recogía. Mas tarde, dejó esta ocupación porque logró entrar en el jercito donde se comía cada día. Mucos españoles se enrolaban en el ejercito porque era la única forma de salir de la miseria. La población española de aquella epoca, no sabia leer ni escribir, eran los sacerdotes católicos los que formaban en matematicas y letras a los soldados, así mismo los suboficiales instruian en las artes militares a estos jovenes reclutas. La valía personal de estos reclutas de baja extracción social, convertian pasados algunos años, a estos jovenes sin educación en lideres militares elegidos por sus compañeros de armas. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonia Murillo Perales (talk • contribs) 07:48, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Translation of the previous:

No, there is no contradiction. We are talking about a period that spans several centuries. The groups of conquerors were financed as they could. An expedition arrived, which was motivated by economic interest, and funding was sought, which could be for the crown and the king, the nobility, or wealthy merchants. According to the degree to which the crown and its resources participated, the campaign was more professional. However, there was the case of governors who did not have military experience, since in Spanish colonial America, public positions were bought or owed more to influences than to their own merits. Many times, an expedition of conquistadors was a group of rich men who financed the men they had recruited and those who fed by promising them part of the booty that was obtained with the expedition. This group without military experience used to consist of a group of Catholic clerics trained in various disciplines and a group of soldiers or mercenaries with military training. These expeditions frequently consisted of slaves who were likewise men of confidence with a higher education than the troop of adventurers and with greater positions of responsibility: interpreters, informers, servants, teachers, etc. As an example, Hernan Cortes was during his childhood a shepherd of pigs that fed on the acorns that he collected. Later, he left this occupation because he managed to enter the little pulp where he ate every day. Spanish Mucos enlisted in the army because it was the only way out of misery. The Spanish population of that time, did not know how to read or write, were the Catholic priests who formed in mathematics and letters to the soldiers, likewise the non-commissioned officers train these young recruits in the military arts. The personal worth of these recruits of low social extraction, converted past a few years, these young people without education in military leaders elected by their comrades in arms. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.34.91.54 (talk) 14:27, 5 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Funding for Cortes

[edit]

After receiving notice from Juan de Grijalva of much gold in the area of what is now Tabasco, the governor of Cuba, (Diego de Velasquez), made a decision to send a larger force than had previously sailed, and appointed Cortes as Captain-General of the Armada. Cortes then applied all of his funds, mortgaged his estates and borrowed from merchants and friends to outfit the ships that would sail under his command. Velasquez may have contributed some to the effort, but the government of Spain had no financial input into this undertaking.(William Prescott - Mexico and the Life of the Conqueror - Volume I, Book 2, Chapter 2, circa 1843)Gtbuilder (talk) 05:06, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hello,

This is kind of a tangent, but I couldn't add my own thread. In discussion of the 'flower war' which took place between the Aztec and neighbouring people before the Spanish invasion I would like to add a few notes. For most of human history warfare has been 'endemic' (long duration, low intensity, usually evolving into almost an art or sport-like form). All of a sudden when a society engages in 'sporadic' war (high intensity low duration, where large numbers of people are killed, and alot of property destroyed) there are cultural issues where it is considered 'unfair' by one party. This occurs all the time in history. The Italians had developed an 'endemic' system of warfare in the 15th century (due largely to their use of mercenary armies, who were often friends or relatives even if employed by two warring cities). There was a battle in Zaragoza in Italy in 1424 where only a single man died 'because he fell from his horse.' Also the Spartans had a permenant endemic war with their helot slaves, the messenians. When the Spartans defeated them, they refused to accept the messenians surrender, not wanting them to be a sub-political entity, but wanting them to be an enslaved group of people. Each year for centuries the spartans declared war on the messenians, so that random killings of messenians would not be considered murder. It is interesting that when Italy was being ransacked by French and Spanish Armies in the early 1500s, and most Italian states (all except Venice) were easily defeated by armies practicing sporadic-warfare, the exact same thing was occuring by a Spanish Army in Mexico. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.98.175.134 (talk) 21:43, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Incoherent

[edit]

For the love of god, re-write this. It's utterly incoherent at best, and frankly of very little use to anyone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.233.96.239 (talk) 05:14, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Copyedit

[edit]

I'm copyediting this epic disaster. Suggestions welcome. I'm already observing that it covers far more than its ostensible subject. The tangential stuff should go. I'll defer until I complete the edit and reorg passes in hopes of generating some feedback.

Lfstevens (talk) 23:44, 5 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]


  • el articulo esta clasificado en "antecedentes" y "consecuencias", inicio, desarrollo y conclusion, "quien hizo que" y la consecuencia. Translated: This article is developed in the "Background" and "consequence" It actions beginning, development and conclusion, "Who did that", "Who ordered what". Please, should not delete the story, because it will cannot be understood. The "Inquisición" was not the governt of Spain or Portugal. This countries were having very pragmatic governts. The goal of these kings, noblemen, richmen were to increase the category of their lineages. The Inquisición was in the service of power and not the other way. People could change their name, lineage, etc, because there was no effective government control. The control was exercised by power groups misrule resulted in: Civil wars and vendettas, abuse, exploitation, plundering, extermination, slavery, abuse and subjugation of women, envy, rivalry among powerful groups or countries...Curritocurrito (talk) 10:52, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments. I'm not sure I entirely understand them. I appreciate your structural revisions as well. I don't understand why you eliminated the refimprove tag? I wish you had waited until I finished the second half of my "final" pass. I'll stand aside for now. In any event, my recommendations for further work on this article follow:

  • Provide citations for the many uncited claims
  • Remove/condense the material in the sections labeled History, Nautical science, Colonial governance
  • Add detail about individual campaigns
  • Many of the sections are accumulations of separate facts, with little connection and excess detail. The article would be much more readable if more focused on what is important to the average reader.
Lfstevens (talk) 17:13, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Spain, the Queen and I prefer honor without ships than ships without honor." this is a quote attributed to Casto Méndez Núñez, but it is wrong. The quote was from Hernán Córtes: "Mas valen cojones sin barcos, que barcos sin cojones" although it seems to say otherwise, stresses that discoveries were made by the necessity of vessels to transport. Without ships and sailorless, they had never been conquerors, they were merchants looking for a trade and conquests appeared after. Curritocurrito (talk) 11:53, 10 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

World Explorers

[edit]

It could be necessary to create or to link some article or articles about explorers, traders, colonizers... not in the service of Spain and Portugal, because many events are due to the interaction and rivalry between human groups, even native groups. 85.251.99.49 (talk) 14:04, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in Conquistador

[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Conquistador's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Martin":

  • From Rockall: Martin, Martin (CIRCA 1695). A Description of the Western Islands of Scotland. {{cite book}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  • From Antonio M. Ruíz: Martin, Percy (1940). Who's Who In Latin America. Stanford University, California: Stanford University Press.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 12:15, 9 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Why is this here?

[edit]

In the section "Characteristics and behaviour", what does a fishing vessel that ran aground in the North Atlantic have to do with the conquistadors, who the article states were professional soldiers? Ocotea (talk) 12:40, 31 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dubious claims on early Basque presence in the New World

[edit]

Hi. An ip address (who appears to be responsible for this "epic disaster") made the following claim:

"It were the possibility of reaching the American continent in the year 1375, just to Newfoundland long before Columbus did in 1492. Many researchers also argue that at least two dozen of men arrived in the territory of Newfoundland caming from the Bay of Biscay and Bayonne in 1412, but this has not been demonstrated archaeologically yet. The evidence, however, suggest that Basques began dominating the history of whaling when they discovered the Grand Banks by 1372. Basque fishing, trading, or pirate ships rediscovered and perhaps even pillaged the desperately isolated and likely abandoned Viking Eastern Settlement on Greenland, probably before 1450."

The ref provided Basques discover the Grand Banks 1372 is a discussion page on a wikipedia article. These claims were shortly thereafter reverted as they lacked citations and were of a very dubious character. There is absolutely no evidence for the claims above, some of which just appear to be muddled versions of other claims (e.g. two dozen Basque men reaching Newfoundland in 1412 is a reference to two dozen Basque ships reaching Iceland in 1412, which was shown to be untrue anyways: see History of Basque whaling article).

Unless someone thinks otherwise, I'll be removing it within a week. Or, if others agree, I'll remove this trash right now :) Baily'sMacomb (talk) 00:49, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely agree. That IP appears to be another sock-puppet of User:Sonia Murillo Perales/Curritocurrito, and in the spanish wikipedia PapaNicolau, all three now blocked. I'll put more detail on your talk page. Thanks for analyzing that mess, and welcome to this particular wiki battle. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 23:15, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No problem. Guess I'll remove the claims then. Thanks again for clarifying the situation. Baily'sMacomb (talk) 00:29, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I can't wait for the day when "Americans" will finally stop denying the Native American holocaust, the greatest war crimes n human history. An entire race was almost exterminated and here we have "American" Wikipedian eenying history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.139.144.246 (talk) 21:46, 6 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Why did so many Conquistadors come from the Spanish region of Extremadura?

[edit]

Extremadura is a sparsely populated region in Spain. Even today its population is little more than 1 million people. Yet, it is incredible how many conquistadors hail from this region. Just a few here:

One of the most dreaded soldiers in the European battlefields was also from that region:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Garc%C3%ADa_de_Paredes

References

  1. ^ http://www.telefonica.net/web2/jerezdeloscaballeros/hijos.htm Hay una disputa entre Jerez de los Caballeros, Barcarrota y Badajoz sobre cuál fue su lugar de nacimiento, pero existen documentos en los que Hernando de Soto solicita ser enterrado en Jerez de los Caballeros, junto a su familia, lo que parece indicar que fue en esa localidad donde nació.

And? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dormsrubi (talk • contribs) 17:16, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Perhaps the reason it is sparsely populated is that it is a land of emigration. There may be little more than 1 million people residing in Extremadura today but there are another 500,000 Extremaduran-born Spaniards residing elsewhere in Spain. Not to mention second and third generation. You would be surprised the number of famous Catalans who are full-blooded Extremadurans. Php2000 (talk) 14:06, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Copying within Wikipedia - attribution

[edit]

Diannaa (talk) (your last edit - attribution), I have answered you on my page. Thanks for the the advice and warning, I will pay attention to it. Although it was partly that way, but you're right and it's something I had not realized - and it makes sense.--LuzoGraal (talk) 00:24, 15 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Conquistador. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 06:14, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Conquistador. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:46, 29 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 8 external links on Conquistador. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 13:01, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Conquistador. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:38, 12 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:45, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect, misleading information in this article

[edit]

There is a map ongoing removal that contains severe misinformation. It is a highly exaggerated map often used by proponents of Portuguese colonialism, and it is a mistake to keep it on the page as a valid image of expansion in India. And yet, it has been kept on the page this whole time, and its removal has been undone before. What is the reason in keeping an incorrect piece of information that misinforms anyone who reads through the page? Is there a point in displaying colonial propaganda as fact?

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:26, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Biasedness

[edit]

I like how the first part of the article, i.e. the resume, is so aggressive and depreciative towards the 'Conquistadores', such words like 'invader', 'invasions', and the option for 'exploitation' instead of exploration, as well as the option for "opening this region for colonialism", instead of "for colonization". The choosing of that strategic words added a negative connotation, and of course, a biased one. One sided POV is frequent in article about Spanish early modern history, specially when dealing with their kings or conquistadores, and often to the negative sense, English historiography is majorly anti-Spanish when analysing this period of times (From 1500 to 1648). But this article goes beyond, it seems not so much about nationalistic preferences, but political narratives (Clearly left-wing, in this case). So, using diverse sources, selecting one depreciative word here, but balancing it there, not showing any case of original reseach or avoiding editing the texts to make them more aggressive and critic towards the main subject, all of that can make Wikipedia healthier and lighter to the reader. Not the case in this intense one sided narrative promoted here.Sawyersx (talk) 19:41, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is laughable, you're essentially saying that painting a realistic image of conquistadors as colonizing conquerors is nothing more than the Black Legend. Well I'm a Portuguese person who is not left-wing (not that any of that should matter) and I have no problem with the representation this article. A conquistador is simply a term for Iberian military conquerors who led colonization efforts across the PT & ES empires, so how can you expect the article to cover anything other than their involvement in colonialism. I would say the article is rather neutral in its laying out of the facts, it seems you are the one coming in here with WP:POV. Cristiano Tomás (talk) 20:08, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sources needed

[edit]

Could someone add some sources/citations for the information under 'Early Portuguese Period'? It's located in the 'History' Header.

It states that "Before the Age of Conquest began, the continental Europe already associated darker skin color with slave-class, attributing to the slaves of African origins."

I'm struggling to find contemporary information supporting this claim. There aren't any sources provided. I'm not trying to start any arguments, I'd just like more information on this topic that supports the claim. 2600:100F:B12E:549F:F820:5682:A86E:3342 (talk) 01:59, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi

[edit]

Hi 2601:80:C87F:DB00:DCE4:6F0E:E76E:216B (talk) 14:45, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

B

[edit]

V 174.16.188.115 (talk) 10:58, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Horses

[edit]

An article about Conquistadors without mentioning their legendary horses? Really? 67.143.208.2 (talk) 21:57, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:37, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This can't be right

[edit]

Just stumbled on this article and saw this:

The 2004 discovery of the New World by Spain rendered desirable a delimitation of the Spanish and Portuguese spheres of exploration. Thus dividing the world into two areas of exploration and colonization.

2004? Also the grammar is bad (2nd sentence should probably be a clause of the 1st, or something), and it just sounds bad ("rendered desirable a delimitation"?).

I don't know anything about the topic and I have no idea how to fix this article. But I can tell it's junk. Denbosch (talk) 18:41, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I fixed it. That "2004" was obviously vandalization, and there's nothing wrong with "rendered desirable a delimitation". If you don't know anything about the subject, then you're in no position to call it junk based on one malicious edit made by a vandal and one phrase you don't like the sound of because you apparently don't know the meaning of "delimitation". Oxford Languages defines it as "the action of fixing the boundary or limits of something", which is perfectly appropriate in the context. Carlstak (talk) 19:07, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ha, sorry for offending! I do know what delimitation means; my issue was with "rendered desirable a delimitation", which I would call bad writing. And the second sentence is a fragment, and plain wrong in my view. Denbosch (talk) 15:32, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Opening paragraph

[edit]

The description of why the Spanish wanted to and did conquer South and Central America is odd. Saying the Spanish told lies about native people and their inferiority which allowed them to conquer them doesn't make sense. To an extent the native people were inferior e.g. no steel weapons, horses and large sailing boats. But to say this was the justification for Spanish Conquest is a wild oversimplification. Conquistador1519 (talk) 18:44, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Conquistador&oldid=1225327113"