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This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was keep. —Korath (Talk) 01:16, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)

Fractal Glider

[edit]

I recommend this Australian psychedelic trance project's article should be removed if the following can be established: That playing "to countless festivals & parties around the globe including Japan, Portugal, Sweden, New Zealand, Switzerland, Holland, France & Belgium" since 1997 does not count as an international concert tour. Because otherwise it meets none of the Music notability criteria. It has 536 unique google hits, but that is the approximate number of psychedelic trance junkies who log into blogs. The sole individual behind the artistic project, Paul McCosh, gets 39 unique google hits. The project released two albums on Boom! Records, a label which has released a total of 19 albums. It is not mentioned on All Music Guide. 216.119.136.157 02:45, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

  • Keep. Meets the 2 album requirement (see here for complete discography). I hereby disclose that I am the author of this article. -Ld | talk 02:52, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • The criterion's requirement is fulfilled not just by the artist releasing two albums. The label on which it is released must be major or an important independent label with other notable artists. As I already said, Boom! Records, Fractal Glider's label, has released a total of 19 albums including Fractal Glider's two, and not including, I should add, any other notable artists.
      • Of course, using circular logic you assume other artists who have released on this label are not notable as well. In fact, those artists include Rastaliens, Logic Bomb, Battle of the Future Buddhas, Chi Ad, Cosmoon, and Ubar Tmar. -Ld | talk 04:40, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
        • How is that circular logic? Do any of those bands satisfy the notability guidelines for musicians? Android79 04:48, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)
          • Indeed. For instance, Logic Bomb has 2 albums released on TIP World and Spiral Trax (two of the bigger psytrance labels). Chi Ad has 3 albums released 2 of them on Nova Tekk (a well-known German label). Finally, Fractal Glider is fairly represantative of the psychedelic trance scene in Australia. -Ld | talk 04:59, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
            • Neither Logic Bomb and Chi Ad have released individual albums on Boom! Records, they have only allowed some of their songs to be released on compilation albums, so Boom! Records is still not an "important indie label" according to the criterion. And being "fairly represantative" of the psychedelic trance scene in Australia is not the same as having "become the most prominent representative of a notable style or the local scene of a city (or both)" which is the text of that different criterion. Wikipedia has to draw a line at creating new entire music articles somewhere. 216.119.144.33 08:09, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
        • Ld, you haven't established the notability of the bands you've listed as "notable" on Fractal Glider's label, you've only made articles for them. What's more to the point is the actual text of the criterion: "Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable) [emphasis mine]. You list 6 bands. Only 4 of them have released actual albums for Boom! Records (FG's label). The other two have individual songs on compilation albums for that label. Of the 4 with actual albums, they all have fewer google hits than Fractal Glider does [run with the name of the band and the word "trance"]! Ubar Tmar, admittedly is in the All Music Guide and the only one there, but he no longer releases albums with Boom! Records and besides, he would be only one notable performer rather than the many that is required for meeting the criterion. 216.119.144.33 08:09, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
          • Please see [1], where it clearly states "FRACTAL GLIDER (Melbourne) returning to Cairns after a hectic international tour launching his new Digital Mandala Cd throughout Japan, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Switzland, Portugal, Hungary and Austria." -Ld | talk 16:17, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Does not meet notability guidelines for musicians. Keep. Recent edits establish notability, particularly the international tour. Android79 16:02, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep, though it would have been easier to vote this way if there was more there there. For an outfit of this type, "festivals and parties" is exactly how one measures success. Jgm 04:53, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep Two albums is more than enough. And also, I would say that playing multiple gigs on several continents in the course of a year or two counts as the equivalent of a tour. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 05:36, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)
    • But it's not over the course of a year or two. Its over the course of eight years. McCosh says he started in 1997. 216.119.144.33 08:09, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, just under the bar of notability. Megan1967 05:49, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep, if just under the bar of notability, but still together/producing music, and meeting the musician criteria of 2 or more albums, should keep. Srcastic 06:27, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)
    • But it doesn't meet the criterion of notability, because Boom! Records isn't an important enough label according to the same stated criterion you mention. See above. Should we change your vote to delete to reflect this? 216.119.144.33 08:09, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
      • No, but thanks for asking - I still vote to Keep. I admit that from the newspaper research I have done, it seems that they are more of a regional group, notable for their influence in an underground genre of music (that I know little about), but that they are considered influential in that genre seems to weigh for keeping them in. There may be an argument for merging them with the genre they are a part of, but there is little argument for eliminating them altogether. Srcastic 09:10, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete as non-notable band, albums should be released by an established label or they don't count. Just like books published by 'vanity press' do not count for a writer. Radiant! 08:49, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment Note updated references. Srcastic 09:10, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep, passes my own notaility criteria, which is "there are people outside Australia who heard them". Grue 10:10, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment. I have expanded the article with additional information, references, and links. -Ld | talk 14:55, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. Arevich
  • Keep and allow for organic growth and expansion. --GRider\talk 18:43, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep, because they've done an international tour. DaveTheRed 19:50, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. No allmusic.com entry for Fractal Glider or Paul McCoosh. Gamaliel 19:59, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep, internationally known. Kappa 20:11, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep it. Wyss 04:11, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. —Markaci 2005-03-14 T 09:22 Z

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

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