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Why is this page not the "Utah Pioneers"?

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It seems odd to focus solely on the religion of those who brought the state to fruition. Would it not be better for the quality of this Wikipedia page to instead use a more generalized "Utah Pioneers" page, and then redirect from "Mormon Pioneers" for more accuracy? If not, is it worth putting in the effort to attempt to rename it to the "Members of the Church of Jesus Christ Pioneers," as requested by the Church of Jesus Christ (additionally listed in their style guide) on recent changes made to prevent confusion surrounding the word "Mormon"? Since Mormon was claimed to be a prophet as described in the Book of Mormon, and, though the usage has previously referred to the Church of Jesus Christ, has never actually had any official association with the Church itself. It has been primarily used as a derogatory term and in other churches, which could cause further confusion. FireController1847 (talk) 08:42, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Mormon Pioneers" is how they were contemporaneously referred to, and how they referred to themselves. It is never appropriate to retro-reference any historical source. The period covered here is 1846-1869, so "Mormon Pioneers" is the title by which they are addressed. Playerpage (talk) 14:19, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is this page historically correct??

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This article includes the following two sentences:

"The journey was taken by about 70,000 people beginning in April 1847."

"In 1846, religious tension reached their peak, and in 1848 mobs burned the Latter-day Saint temple in Nauvoo."

Yet, the Wikipedia page for Nauvoo, Illinois, states: "In early 1846, the majority of the Latter Day Saints left the city. After the departure of the Mormons, the temple stood until destroyed by arsonists on November 19, 1848."

Both versions cannot be correct. This should be fact-checked and corrected. Nowax 20:08, 12 March 2008 (UTC) Nowax

Actually, both versions are correct. The journey that is described as "beginning in April 1847" was "from the midwest to the Salt Lake Valley." The majority of Latter Day Saints left Nauvoo in early 1846, but they remained in the Midwest (in Winter Quarters, Nebraska and other settlements in Iowa, Nebraska, and elsewhere) until the first party set out for Utah in April 1847. BRMo (talk) 23:34, 17 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Nowax also asked this question on talk: Nauvoo, Illinois. This was my response:  ::They really don't contradict each other. The majority of Latter-day Saints did leave Nauvoo, Illinois in 1846, when religious tensions reached their peak. They traveled across the river to seek sanctuary in Nebraska. There they stayed until 1847 when a series of pioneer companies began to move west. Ultimately about 70,000 people traveled west to Utah. And, is not a mob that burns a building a group of arsonists? So, what are your concerns? Does the material need to be expanded? WBardwin (talk) 02:01, 18 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Of course they contradict each other. Are you simple? One is claiming religious persecution and making it sound like they were forced out of the city and their stuff torched by angry mobs, the other depicts history as it actually was. One is an emotive incitement propaganda that was necessary for a budding cult to spread it's wings and give it's adherents that feeling of persecution that all the mind-poisoning philosophies require if they're to be a true suicide cult like the abrahamic faiths tend to be (well, admittedly mormonism is closer to a UFO cult, but that's besides the point) - but Wikipedia is an encyclopedia not a religious propaganda tool and thus is should reflect reality and not the bollocks some church wants to put out there.

I've noticed that we always seem to have troubles on Wikipedia with religious types. Look at Scientology for example, they're banned from editing as a peoples now. It follows that members of a specific group ought not to edit articles pertaining to themselves if they wish to contribute to Wikipedia in an honest and integral fashion. I have done my utmost to avoid touching anything I may be emotive about, it would be fantastic if other people used common sense in the same way.

I know this is an ancient edit, but I feel that someone needs to call bullshit on this nonsense so future editors are aware that stupidity ought not be tolerated on here. This isn't the place for pushing an agenda. This isn't a place for religious propaganda. They left, the place lay dormant and empty for years then got burnt down by an arsonist. That is VERY different to what is being portrayed. As I clearly think that cultists of all forms are animated cancer I won't edit this article because I can't assure my own neutrality but I ask that a reasonable person who's mind is not addled with the restrictive confines of mental poison make the appropriate adjustments to reflect reality as perceived by people who are of sound mind. 121.211.15.2 (talk) 10:09, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Wow. Just Wow. I don't get this person's vitriol at all. The Mormon Trail is perhaps the most documented pioneer route in the United States. There are site markers--state sponsored, not religiously sponsored--from Illinois to Utah, particularly in the spots where it merges, or breaks off with, the Oregon Trail. It is also well documented to be tied to the religious convictions and persecutions of Latter-day Saints. Persecutions that modern Illinois and Missouri even acknowledge! One of the two articles referenced here may emphasize different aspects, but neither is dishonest or inaccurate. He claims neutrality while calling ALL Abrahamic religions suicidal, and Mormons UFO fanatics in particular. Wow. Playerpage (talk) 14:13, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Missouri remnant

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I probably need to research this again, but shouldn't some mention those who continued to practice (in secret) some of the less accepted views, which remained behind in Missouri (IIRC)? JamesEG (talk) 20:55, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Could you clarify what you meant by this comment? I'm not following... -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 18:58, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Looking carefully at the map with this article it shows the handcart companies going south to meet with the original pioneer route. Why would they do this? It was nine years later and none of the Mormon people were on that trail. Church history and many journals tell how they struck directly west from Iowa City to cross the state of Iowa, then across the Missouri River and stopped in the area that had once been the earlier Saint's winter quarters and was later named Florence Nebraska. Can that map be altered to reflect this or can we have some sources supporting the route shown thereon? 98.202.40.166 (talk) 23:04, 28 May 2014 (UTC) Franklin Reid[reply]

At the time of the cease fire

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This article sets itself "At the time of the cease fire", but makes no references as to what ceasefire in which war. As a result it is meaningless to those of us unfamiliar with this bit of US history - learning about which is what brought me to the page. Shipsview (talk) 18:08, 29 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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