Talk:Oscar Peterson

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Untitled

"which clearly shows that Peterson's age limits his technical powers." - isn't that, without an attribution, a bit too judgemental for an encyclopedic article? - davidswelt

What does 'M%$# F*%$#' stand for? Did you know that Glenn Gould admired Mr. Peterson - in one of his letters he refers to it. One Canadian pianist to another.

Is there some reason the last edit removed the second and third paragraphs? I don;t care if you edit anonymously, but it would be nice to know why a major change like that has been made. John FitzGerald 01:28, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Since no reason was supplied I have restored the two paragraphs. John FitzGerald 01:57, 13 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I got on this page redirected by a link to the oscar peterson trio. Since the trio had during several years fixed members and appeared as an entity, wouldn't it be appropiate to separate the discography for the albums from the Oscar Peterson Trio and from Oscar Peterson as soloist or with companion? Can do if I had some time :)

Jazz pianist

Jazz pianist - that was his entire professional career, a great career. He was one of the best pianists who professionally played jazz music, from boogie-woogie to ballads. He also accompanied some great jazz singers. His 200 jazz recordings are very uneven in perfomance quality; some are great, some are not.

However, calling him one of the best of ALL pianists would be wrong in many ways. He never recorded serious classical piano concertos by Franz Liszt, or Tchaikovsky, or Sergei Rachmaninov on professional level with a full symphony orchestra. The lack of classical repertoire is a tough fact that does not allow even to discuss comparisons of his level of piano playing with serious classical pianists of top caliber, such as Martha Argerich, Mitsuko Uchida, Artur Rubinstein, Andre Watts, Vladimir Horowitz, Sviatoslav Richter, Sergei Rachmaninov, Van Cliburn, Murray Perahia, Maurizio Pollini, Claudio Arrau, Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli, Emanuel Ax, Vladimir Ashkenazy, Lang Lang, Arcadi Volodos, Daniel Barenboim and many more.

Peterson himself admitted that he never reached the quality of piano playing of his jazz model, Art Tatum. Other great pianists in jazz were Duke Ellington, Bill Evans, and more. Today we can hear such excellent jazz pianists as McCoy Tyner, Dave Brubeck, André Previn, Shelly Berg and Benny Green, as well as Adam Makowicz, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea, and other top players. Young virtuoso Eldar Djangirov delivered some outstanding performances compared by many to Oscar Peterson, whom he calls a model, as well as Art Tatum.

Oscar Peterson was one of the greatest pianists in jazz.

His jazz trios, and some performances during 50s - 80s as accompanist, were very nice. Regards. Steve shelok honov 07:17, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please read the reference for that assertion. Allmusic.com's Scott Yanow explicitly calls him "one of the greatest piano players of all time". This is sufficient to say that Peterson was considered to be one of the greatest piano players of all times. A ecis^Brievenbus 14:17, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reference by Scott Yanow, a jazz critic, narrowly specialized in JAZZ music, does not apply to all CLASSICAL pianists. His opinion is reputable in jazz, albeit his profession as a jazz critic has little to do with ALL pianists. 76.172.211.141 (talk) 15:10, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That doesn't change the fact that a reliable and relevant source considers Peterson to be one of the greatest piano players ever. Not one of the greatest jazz piano players ever, but one of the greatest piano players. Period. The background of Scott Yanow is irrelevant. A ecis^Brievenbus 15:22, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. He is one of the best pianists of all time. NO WHERE in the article does it say that he is one of the best amongst classical pianists, but of ALL pianists. It's taken straight from the article, therefore it shouldn't be removed. Blackjays1 (talk) 03:19, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The concept of an all-time best is meaningless. One person's greatest is another person's mediocrity. One critic may judge by technical ability and another by emotive capacity. It should be removed, not because Peterson wasn't excellent, which I think he was, but because it is an absurdity. Scott Yanow's opinion is worth no more than yours or mine. Nicmart (talk) 20:47, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

While I have no interest or desire in claiming anyone to be the "Best Pianist Ever" - such a thing is practically impossible - I do find the attitude that appears above rather priggy. I think that the archaic attitude that "Classical Music" - a very misleading term in the first place - is somehow the benchmark against which other musicians should be graded is inappropriate. Jazz, Rock and many other forms have their own complexities which require skills that many (what you refer to as) classical pianists simply do not ordinarily have to deal with. Improvisation is an obvious starting point for which Rachmaninov did not leave much room. Rachmanininov is NOT a classical composer except in the rather narrow minded world of "If he uses violins and stuff and was before 1920 it's classical" Those of you who feel that Classical Music is the real thing and all the rest are making the best of a bad job really don't have much of a clue. My name is Andy.New to Wikipedia, not new to the music which you are misrepresenting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.147.27.173 (talk) 10:27, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Quite agree with what you say, Andy. I strongly advise that you to get a user account and start editing. I must say, however, that I sometimes find the term "jazz" almost as non-descriptive as "classical". Martinevans123 (talk) 10:34, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

postage stamp

I have added the Oscar Peterson postage stamp to this page. It should be usuable under canadian crown copyright and even American Laws since this page is actually talking about the stamp. Dowew 18:27, 15 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Videos

Hey Everyone!!!!

Go to youtube.com and see classic video of Oscar in action. Better hurry - too good to be true, and they'll probably take the videos down soon!!!

Almighty2001 23:30, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Videography

The article is missing a videography of all his movie and TV appearances 2607:FEA8:10E0:1C00:9D5:EFB8:3EF9:3FA0 (talk) 22:04, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:OscarPetersoncomposer.jpg

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Oscar Peterson on MPS records

Yes, it's true, O.P.'s cuts on MPS are brilliant and he considered them to those of his records he loved the best. However, when you follow the link on the MPS letters, then you find an explanation for the abbreviation of MPS to be "Music Production of Stuttgart". This is absolutely wrong. The correct meaning of MPS is "Musik Produktion Schwarzwald" (translated: Black Forrest Music Production) and the location of the studio was in the house of SABA-coowner Hans-Georg Brunner-Schweer in Villingen-Schwenningen, approx. 100 miles south of Stuttgart.

Good detail. That was in the Schwarzwaald area in Baden-Wurtemberg. Peterson lived in Germany for months during the 70s and 80s, he was a regular player at various European jazz festivals then.Steve shelok honov 06:09, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Inappropriate quote

Assuming that the Ray Charles quote: ' Oscar.... is a mother-fucking piano player ' is accurate, its wholly inappropriate for the bio on Peterson. While Ray prob. meant it to be laudatory, it assumes a derogatory tone in an otherwise good article about this amazing person, and I propose the quote be removed from the article. There are certainly going to be other more interesting quotes available on or by Oscar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.248.3.176 (talk • contribs) 22:18, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree

I think it is a most appropriate quote. It is clearly enthusiastic in concept and how jazz people really talk. Please sign your comments, btw. Bellagio99 (talk) 23:08, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. The words mother fucking aren't always used in a derogatory manner. In this case, Ray Charles was basically saying "Oscar Peterson is an outstanding piano player." I think it should stay since it's not disrespectful. Blackjays1 (talk) 17:46, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Such words of praise and recognition are special and fully respectful when coming from Ray. Keep the good line. Don't degrade Wikipedia to the level of PG-13 movies.Steve shelok honov 05:03, 26 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, but for a time it was almost the only quote about him and I think that was a mistake. I think there are other statements concerning him that are just as notable. Like Herbie Hancock saying he was "the major influence that formed my roots in jazz piano playing" or Eldar Djangirov calling him "my main artistic influence."[1] (To show the multi-generational and international range of his influence)--T. Anthony (talk) 08:28, 26 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Great comment by the great Ray about the great Oscar Peterson. Yes, there are many more comments by pianists who were influenced by Peterson, like Shelly Berg, Benny Green, and Adam Makowicz, among others. But this Ray's line is really jazzy. Steve shelok honov 18:08, 26 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yes. Athough I don't use that word myself I felt the quote was quite appropriate and well-placed.--T. Anthony (talk) 03:09, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Regards

Kind regards from Germany on Christmas eve, the day after O.P. passed away unfortunately! Karl-Heinz Bendix......

I join you here for a heartfelt tribute from England , possibly in the wrong place but what is the internet if not to bring people together at such times? A wonderful gentle man of free spirit and peace.

--Andrew

A major loss to the world of jazz. They broke the mold when they made Oscar. His style never changed in all the years he performed—and it didn't need to change. He got it right the first time!

BDD (talk) 04:17, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rest in peace, Oscar. Basser g (talk) 04:42, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Singer??

The first sentence states that he was a "jazz pianist, singer...", but I don't think I can fully agree with that. Are there any notable songs or albums which he actually sings on? Blackjays1 (talk) 00:35, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, there are. He sang on 1965 tribute album to Nat King Cole. Also here and there he sang his own songs, and standards as well. Another album with his voice: Oscar Peterson - Romance (Label: Polydor, 1990). Steve shelok honov 08:14, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pianist, composer, Canadian icon

An editor has questioned the user box listing "pianist" before "composer". You could say that the entire article, with many references, documents his primacy as a pianist. He composed some nice pieces (and on a Mac when I visited him in 1992), but he spent most of his time playing others' pieces. I also added "Canadian leader" which the article also documents. He also sang in a few pieces, as the previous discussion noted, but it was non-notable (a record label tried to get him to emulate Nat King Cole in the early 1950s). YMMV. Bellagio99 (talk) 03:18, 18 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I see that Blackjays1, a serious Peterson editor, has removed "Canadian leader" from the intro box and added the York Chancellor's succession box at the end of the article. Thoughts on both:

Peterson was more than a pianist and composer. He had achieved a statesman-like role in Canada that was more than say, Miles or even Dizzy in the U.S. Indeed, Prime Minister Chreitien said he would have appointed him Lt.-Gov of Ontario in 1993 if his health would have permitted it.

I didn't know that the York Chancellor succession boxes were at the end of all Chancellors' articles. So my deletion may have been wrong. But the boxes seem like York peacockry, especially as Peterson's Chancellorship is suitably noted in the text of the article.

Bellagio99 (talk) 14:50, 19 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think I see where you are coming from, but I don't think that "leader" or "icon" quite fits with the infobox category of occupation. Those are roles in which he ended up being cast, but they are not exactly occupations. I would say leave it out of the infobox entirely and allow the article to address it. Also, "icon" just sounds a little too fannish; no offense intended. Just my thoughts, --Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 18:37, 19 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Paul Erik. Being an iconic figure among fans is one thing, compare to Glenn Gould, another Canadian genius, arguably the best Canadian pianist, and an definitive icon and role model for some classical pianists (just like Peterson is for some jazz pianists); albeit Glenn Gould's infobox does not mention him as an icon.

Comparing pianist to pianist is fare, but comparing a pianist to a hockey star, especially the caliber of the Great Gretzy, please... . I love Oscar Peterson, his 50s trio and his 70s solo piano works are great, still other jazz pianists of his time were no less great: Art Tatum, Bill Evans, Duke Ellington to name just a few. However, outside of jazz piano specialty, there are quite many supreme pianists in Canada and in the rest of the world. Louis Lortie is a great Canadian pianist, Martha Argerich, Mitsuko Uchida, Artur Rubinstein, Andre Watts, Vladimir Horowitz, Sviatoslav Richter, Sergei Rachmaninov, Van Cliburn, Murray Perahia, Maurizio Pollini, Claudio Arrau, Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli, Emanuel Ax, Vladimir Ashkenazy, Lang Lang, Arcadi Volodos, Daniel Barenboim are supreme pianists, each one iconic and highly regarded. Steve shelok honov 22:11, 19 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Steve, I guess I didn't make my point clear. The "icon" item was about his role in broader Canadian society -- not about his piano playing. Unlike Gould, he did play such a leadership role, and I think the Gretzky analogy is fair -- especially as GG has decamped for the sand dunes of Phoenix. If there is a consensus, I will abide, either way. Bellagio99 (talk) 03:28, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think "icon" is better than my previous "leader". It may not be perfect, but I think that something should ID Oscar's role in the last decades in Canada, as more than a great pianist and composer. The only parallel I could find is Gretzy but his info box is sports-focused only so I couldn't get ideas from it. When Oscar and Gretzy speaks about anything, Canadians listen. (And Peter Gzowski in the past.) Doing the York chancellorship, etc. is being an "icon" -- it's a job. Wonder what others' opinions are. YMMV. Bellagio99 (talk) 19:11, 19 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't agree with calling Peterson a "Canadian leader", but "Canadian icon" seems like a better title, and it should stay, in my opinion. As for the York chancellor box, after it was removed, I thought this article was getting some sort of "special treatment", because he died. If that box is removed it's like a broken link in a chain. Blackjays1 (talk) 15:05, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jazz icon, or Canadian icon, or both; who makes such decisions, Wikipedia users, or a concilium of jazz critics, or Canada ??

I love Oscar Peterson, his 50s trio and his 70s solo piano works are great, still other jazz pianists of his time were no less great: Art Tatum, Bill Evans, Duke Ellington to name just a few. However, outside of the narrow specialty, such as jazz piano, there are quite many supreme pianists in Canada and in the rest of the world. Glenn Gould, another Canadian genius, arguably the best Canadian pianist, and an definitive icon and role model for some classical pianists (just like Peterson is for some jazz pianists); albeit Glenn Gould's infobox does not mention him as a Canadian icon.

Louis Lortie is a great Canadian pianist, Martha Argerich, Mitsuko Uchida, Artur Rubinstein, Andre Watts, Vladimir Horowitz, Sviatoslav Richter, Sergei Rachmaninov, Van Cliburn, Murray Perahia, Maurizio Pollini, Claudio Arrau, Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli, Emanuel Ax, Vladimir Ashkenazy, Lang Lang, Arcadi Volodos, Daniel Barenboim are supreme pianists, each one is iconic and highly regarded musician.

Consensus among entertainers and critics simply does not exist, decisions are motivated by personal likings, politics and money, not by serious quality and beauty, sadly. Encyclopedias are to be more careful, especially in such "grey area" as mixing jazz pianists with classical pianists and declaring the best of all. Only a few of jazz pianists accomplished decent performances of high end classical piano concertos with symphony orchestras, Chick Corea's and Keith Jarrett's performances of Mozart's piano concerto No.23 are ok [2], but not even close to the superb artistry in Horowitz's famous interpretation with the La Scala Symphony: the adagio [3] and allegro [4]

None of the jazz pianists were able to perform seriously difficult piano pieces like this [5], or concertos by Franz Liszt, or the No.1 by Tchaikovsky, or No.2 and No.3 by Rachmaninov, like the 17-year-old Greek pianist Sgouros, or Kissin [6], or Bronfman [http://www.youtube.com/

We have yet to see any jazz pianist play Liszt's La Campanella like this [7], or like this [8]. Chopin's Revolutionary Etude is rarely played by jazz pianists like this take by Andre Watts, just see this [9]

Mixing Oscar Peterson with all pianists, including classical musicians mentioned above, is not serious, and does not do justice to this great jazz man.

Let Canada decide who is their national icon. Let more professionals with adequate scope, exposure and knowledge formulate definitions, ranking, and who is who. No matter how much we like some entertainers, we are just Wikipedia users, not decision makers. Steve shelok honov 21:25, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Steve, please read my comments to your previous entry. No one is arguing about Peterson vs Horowitz, et al. The icon thing is whether he had the respect throughout the country that was more than his piano-playing and composing. There's a lot of evidence in the "Recognition in Canada" part of the Peterson page that suggests to me that it is so. (And to Blackjays1 also.) I am sorry that you had to go to the trouble of retyping your list of grant pianists, altho I found it useful and treasure the first Richter LP I ever bought about 1960. You say leave it to the experts. Well, WIkipedia doesn't work like that. FWIW, I am NOT an expert in pianism, but as a Canadian social scientist, I have a good informal expertise on national icon-ness. As for Glen Gould, an interesting guy, but so eccentric as to not achieve icon-ness. As I said, YMMV. Bellagio99 (talk) 21:36, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Steve this strikes me as rather snooty and possibly not even true. Even if it were I'm uncertain what it means that a person trained in one form of music can not do the most complicated pieces of a totally different style. Could Watts do "Blue Rondo a la Turk" justice? Maybe he could, I don't know. On details the person above me sounds like he has the right idea.--T. Anthony (talk) 10:33, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

These classifications are meant to inflate the person's importance in the eyes of those who like him, not to provide meaningful information. If he won the most important cultural honor in Canada, then let the entry say that; but it is just puff to say he was an "icon" in the view of (unspecified) Canadians. You may as well say, "Some people think Oscar P. was a badass piano player." Nicmart (talk) 20:55, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

De Marky

I edited the sentence about Paul de Marky. De Marky was not a student of Liszt (he was born 9 years after Liszt's death), but he was a student of Istvan Thoman who was a student of Franz Liszt. Batonpower (talk) 18:48, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Carnegie, 1949

In his autobiography, "A Jazz Odyssey: The Life of Oscar Peterson." Peterson wrote that he was introduced as a "surprise guest" to circumvent the Anreican Federation of Musicians. I did not remove the "citation" tag because I read that book very long ago, someone with a copy at hand should confirm this.Bustter (talk) 18:54, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Freemason

Peterson has been cited in a list of Canadian Masons. It wouldn't be a bad idea to mention it in the article. [10] ADM (talk) 11:50, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Number of recordings

The entry says, "He released over 200 recordings." What is a "recording"? Is it an album, an individual song? He surely recorded many more than 200 songs, and I contend these are each recordings. If the entry refers (and why does it?) to his albums, or his studio sessions, it should say so. Nicmart (talk) 20:51, 30 October 2009 (UTC

‘Songs’? You speak in the pop-music patois of iTunes. Try ‘tracks’, or ‘cuts’, to use a dated terminology. Songs are sung. Peterson was a pianist.

Statue

There has been recently a Statue made of Oscar Peterson in Ottawa. It is by the NAC there. I was wondering if it was worth taking a picture of it, and putting it in the wikipedia commons? I would have to ask permission of the sculpter and the NAC. Adding this eventual picture to this page, I think, should be done. Arvindan T. 03:05, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Children

He left seven children, his fourth wife Kelly, and their daughter, Celine (born 1991).

So, is Celine one of the seven, in which case why is she singled out? Or is she the 8th child, in which case why do we say 7? Something's gotta give. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 12:14, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- According to the Toronto Star: "Oscar Peterson had five children with his first wife Lillian, no children with his second wife Sandra, one child with his third wife Charlotte and one child with his fourth wife Kelly." I think Celine is singled out because she appeared, with Kelly, in a number of tributes after his death. The way it's written could use some clarifying; any suggestions? Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 21:59, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bisexuality

It's a shame that his bisexuality isn't mentioned. Unfortunately I know of no print source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pokey5945 (talk • contribs) 00:06, 22 December 2011 (UTC) agreed. i recently searched it to find a source for a project, yet was only faced with articles questioning his sexuality.... 5:22 14th Feb 2019 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.215.72.156 (talk) 21:22, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Tristeza is a eulogy?

In the Trio section of this article, an anonymous user mentioned that the Tristeza on Piano album is a "eulogy of the recently deceased Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin, the Monterey Pop Festival stars." I'm surprised no source had been requested for that comment (until I did today) - and it's been there since 2008! --J. J. (talk) 18:19, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oscar Peterson Show

Could the writers of this article try to include mention of the "Oscar Peterson Show" - a regular TV music show that O.P. presented and performed in in the mid 1970s. We had guests including Rick Wakeman & Keith Emerson with whom he would perform.As far as I know it was a British TV show/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.156.114.39 (talk) 00:16, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Racial Integration

Ref the 'Trio' paragraph..."Kessel tired of touring after a year, and was succeeded by Herb Ellis. As Ellis was white, Peterson's trios were racially integrated, a controversial move at the time that was fraught with difficulties with segregationist whites and blacks."

Yes Herb Ellis was white, but so was Barney Kessel who was in the trio before Ellis. Worth a minor edit, or was any controversy only attached to Ellis' tenure because (example) perhaps they didn't tour in the southern US with Kessel? Stratopastor (talk) 23:07, 3 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The whole article could do with a major edit, so don't hold back. EddieHugh (talk) 19:46, 4 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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External links modified

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Arts Commons not in Edmonton

Something is messed up -- not sure how to proceed -- I'd appreciate guidance from experienced editors. The paragraph starting with "One of the signature pianos is located in the lobby of the Arts Commons (formerly, Epcor Centre for the Performing Arts)" states that the concert hall is in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada when in fact it is in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. The cited article states the event occurred in Edmonton (at a concert hall located in Calgary) on the very night that the Juno Awards main gala was happening in Calgary, which would seem to preclude the event from happening in Calgary on that date. So it probably was in Edmonton, but the venue in the article is incorrect. I haven't found any other citation that might clarify the situation. Goodwithfish (talk) 20:42, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

WWII

How did this guy avoid the military in WWII? He was 18 at the peak of the war in 1943 and a high school dropout. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8805:5C03:400:E523:4FB0:3771:1B91 (talk) 22:05, 8 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]