Talk:Yellow socialism

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 September 2020 and 22 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Tatianarowes.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 05:16, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Term...

I suspect this is a term no one ever applied to themselves. Assuming I'm right, the article should make this clear. -- Jmabel 02:40, Jul 8, 2004 (UTC)

Actually, according to WHEELER, the term comes from Pierre Biétry who broke from the Socialist Party (SFIO) and formed what became the "Fédération Nationale des Jaunes de France" . I do not know if subsequent "yellow socialists" picked up the term from Bietry's movement or if left wing critics of "right wing socialism" applied the term caustically. AndyL 04:45, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

If anyone has a citation for that, it certainly belongs in the article. -- Jmabel 03:00, Jul 9, 2004 (UTC)

Racism and anti-Semitism

Mihnea, I agree with most of your recent edits, but why did you remove the phrase "as well as utilisation of racism or anti-Semitism" after the statement about anti-immigration? -- Jmabel | Talk 00:23, Jan 8, 2005 (UTC)

The term "yellow socialism" by itself is a fuzzy one, but the article states that "After the war the term 'yellow socialism' fell into disuse in favour of the term 'social democrat'." So we're talking about the early 20th century socialist movement that gave rise to modern social democracy. That movement was hardly "racist" or "anti-Semitic" in any way (and modern social democrats are quite known for their intense opposition to racism). -- Mihnea Tudoreanu 00:51, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I understand that you oppose any correlation between socialism and racism Mihnea, and that’s a perfectly acceptable POV. The problem is that there was alot of correlation in the past, and even some today. I agree that modern social democracy is almost entirely opposed to racism, but Yellow socialism is a different subject. It was rife with blatent racism, and that should not be covered up. Sam_Spade (talk · contribs) 15:25, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

In that case, the differences between modern social democracy and yellow socialism should not be covered up either. -- Mihnea Tudoreanu 10:13, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I concur with both of you here. It belongs in the article, and the distinction needs to be made. -- Jmabel | Talk 21:55, Jan 9, 2005 (UTC)

So lomg as nothing is covered up or overly beautified, I think we're all on the same page, yes. Sam_Spade (talk · contribs) 22:19, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I certainly see no problem with the current form of the article. -- Mihnea Tudoreanu 14:07, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The main problem I see is that yellow socialism is barely defined at all. If it is not Marxist, then how can it be socialist given that it was created long after the Communist Manifesto was taken to defining socialism? All I can determine from online research is that yellow unionism seemed to be about forming a labor cartel within a capitalist system. How does this concept gel with modern democratic socialism? matturn 13:18, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Berne International

I just changed this text:

The "Berne International" (or "Two-and-a-half International") which met at Zimmerwald in 1915 was similarly described by Lenin as "yellow socialist", despite its opposition to the war, for its rejection of revolutionary socialism.

to

The "Berne International" (or "Two-and-a-half International"), formed in Vienna in 1921, was similarly described by Lenin as "yellow socialist", despite its opposition to the war, for its rejection of revolutionary socialism.

BUT, then I realised that the Berne International is the re-formed Second International, formed in Berne in 1919 by the pro-war socialists. Which one did Lenin call "yellow"? BobFromBrockley 11:35, 30 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I found Lenin calling the Berne Intl yellow, will add that in. Still need more clarification. BobFromBrockley 11:39, 30 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I was writing up my change descrip when the page posted somehow.

So -

Capitalized "Yellow" through out the article - "Yellow" was intended as a "proper noun"-based adjective, like "Christian", or, obviously, "Red".

The 1904 date is wrong per the article on Bietry - corrected to 1902.

Reorganized the references to Marxist use of the label.

Added some history from Bietry article.

Broke out the summary of the ideas to a section.

Rephrasing of some very clumsy sentences.

Rich Rostrom (Talk) 02:21, 1 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Le Socialisme et les Jaunes (English Translation)

Ok so I don't speak french, and you have a link in your external links of Pierre's book, Le Socialisme et les Jaunes, but it's in French. Is there a translation in English that anyone knows of? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:201:200:7AE0:8868:9440:4B69:C910 (talk) 04:18, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]